haha

well, Rapp as nothing to left to lose. but he is a solid runner on a good day! he as done a 2:46!

this program was made when i was living with brian. i live with him for a good 7-8 years...he is my second family! i never paided rent!!!! that was the good old time!

But for starky....i m pretty sure it s a training phylosophy. he loves the bike, he want to ride hard and he perhaps isnt interested in compromising this part. He might be right...perhaps he isnt!

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

this is dumb

freedom of speech and opinion!

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Since I was on the heavy side all of this year I've gone back on my winter diet and started calorie counting.

What I had last night after blowing off a bike workout would not fill a coffee saucer :(

I read this original post a while back and without explicitly living by exactly those rules, its main ideas made it into my subconscious nutrition guidelines.

My issue is this though:
The strategy above was designed for people for whom a late session is the exception rather than the norm it seems.
During the week, I almost exclusively work out in the evening/at night. Sometimes as the last thing to do before going to bed (I have no trouble falling asleep right after an hard session on the trainer).

What do you think is the main adaptions to these rules to be made for this?
Would it make sense to "shift the eating window" a little back? So you're allowed to regularly eat after your late workout, but conversely start with lunch as the first meal of the day...

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if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

The answer Jonnyo is likely going to give us, is "go to sleep early and wake up at 3 am to train.....stop slacking off....get on the plan!!!" (I say this after having slept in till around 8 am every day for the last 9 days! But I remember meeting Jonnyo for a 5:30 am ride 90K 2500 ft vertical ride in April in 1C temps in Ottawa (in 2007) and he says, "where is the group", to which I replied, "you and I are the group", to which he replied, "well, we know who is getting the PB's this year".

How can you possibly get in the proper amount of calories to fuel your training and not go anemic with these rules? A coffee saucer of food isn't anything near what you need to consume. Do you recall what your daily caloric intake was Jonny? I'm fascinated by this because I'm in no mans land with regards to fueling and training without going into deficient. It defies the odds on the surface.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

that's funny. i have no strict rules during training, other than train hard and eat well. i dropped 23lbs this training season.

from 145 to 123 on race day. watched my body fat drop from the mid teens to 7-8% consistently.

i ate after 7:30 (it's not a big deal when you don't sleep till midnight or 1am). i ate large dinners, i snacked all day, i averaged 6k calories. i ate immediate post workout, i sometimes ate 90 mins post work out.

rules are good, if you need them. otherwise, pay attention to your body and you'll see the weight drop.

you can get as many calories as you want: but make sure you get them early in the day.....

my calorie intake? no clue, i never counted. but i was training 30h/week and racing professionally. Peter Reid was also doing something very similar. He call it going to be hungry at night. When it came time to drop down to race weight, it was a very effective way to get there without compromising the quality of the training for most part.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

I gotta agree with you here. I think the big question is how did it translate to performance. How did Hawaii go that year compared to others? Were you actually faster all around on race day?

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https://twitter.com/mungub

That makes sense in context to you as a professional (i assume) at the time. Were you planning around just workouts or also maintaining a job that had to be worked around? Sorry for all the questions, as I said I'm fascinated with figuring out how to get this to work right to stay healthy and still maintain weight loss. I do 95% of my workouts at night 6pm onwards and complete them by 8-8:30pm. By the time I'm eating it's 9pm sometimes and I'm in bed by 10:30-11pm. I'm starting to think I need to load up my body in the morning and stay hungry in the evening.

How did this differ from the times you were just training and eating without an eyeball on "race weight" ?

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

as i said, it s important to be context into this post: i was at the time a young professional up and coming athlete. i was living at Brian stover house and he was greatly helping me escaping canadian winter and train in a great location.

Now, for a age group atheltes that train at night, this is going to be problematic as we dont want you to sacrifice recovery. I do coach a lot of age group athletes and i do push many of them to start and learn to train early in the morning. i try to aim at moderation, heating healthy and not be obsess about there weight....until they start faling into a higher performance level.... then, weight need to be adress.

But in your case, no douth you need proper fuel after workout. going to be hungry would be counterproductive.

Once again, people need to put context into this post: This is a post that was writen in 5min giving humoristic but very true advice as to how to lose the weight while training at a high level. different situation require different approach.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Thanks jonnyo! You're one of my favorite STers. I always find you willing to help and guide others but remain supportive and cautious. I appreciate your replies and I'll summarize that last post as:

1. Get up and train in the morning and adopt this philosophy
2. Get yourself a coach who can help guide you through this process and cater it to your circumstances.


Both of these are things I know but wanted external acknowledgement on so thanks for that!

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

You dropped that much weight this year while consuming 6,000 calories a day?

What actually is a healthy body fat percentage?

Should there be a difference between training and racing?

jaretj

I just never understand why some find so many excuses as to how do to do things logically.

So lets see, we all race early in the morning, so lets not train like we race, lets train in the evening.

We get up early to head to races but no, lets stay up late and get up late so we never sleep as we would on race day.

Everything I keep reading says sleep is the number 1 recover tool our body needs.

So yep, folks can give me a bad time for heading into bed around 6 to 7 each night, and getting up at 4:15 for training, but interesting this is Jonnyo's recommendation.

Coach, never need a coach. I can read great posts like these on ST and figure it out myself. :)

And how to lose weight. Just so easy, watch what you eat and talk to your scale. I still have been trying to get back to race weight after my 2 weeks in Disneyland 2 months
ago and now going out to dinner multiple times per week. But I have just stopped my bonus food the last 2 months that I only get if I am at race weight.
The focus for weight is no different than the focus we put on all our other training. No excuses.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Some people have to be at work at 5:30am so they cannot train in the morning.
Also, I don't consider a 7am start time as early.

jaretj

Fad diet

this.

i work 6.45am-5:30pm with no real breaks (bfast and lunch at the desk). No time to cook healthy meals, literally work and train.

So I do a good job of just usually ignoring you but this one I'll let you have it because your inability to relate to anything other than yourself is truly amazing. Logical applies to the masses not to one person and in this case the word to describe this would be anything but logical. Id say it is narrow sighted and tunnel vision.

First and foremost, races are on weekends when there are no other commitments on our schedules (because we blocked it off for racing) so how that factors into the topic I'm speaking of is beyond me. Furthermore, like most Age Group athletes, I have a regular full time position where I work 8 hours a day with the added bonus of a 1 hour commute each way. That's 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, dedicated to my career and that's bare minimum. Waking up at 4am isn't an option for me as my gym doesn't even open until 6am, when I have to be well into my morning routine to get to work on time. That "LOGICAL" idea isn't really standing up here.

Secondly, when it comes to loosing weight, it is more than a simple in/out formula after the initial rigors work themselves out. There is your metabolism, then there is your digestion, then there is the macros and micro nutrients. We aren't the general population here. If we train as hard and often as we all claim the generic rules get grey when figuring out this portion of your unique anatomy. Issues you can run into range from how to avoid becoming anemic, how to put lean muscle on, how to properly fuel for your weekdays vs your weekends, how to supplement to when to eat those calories, what the source of calories should be, etc. Reducing it down to calories and a scale likely will hit it's limits of usefulness quickly.

I implore you to exercise more since you SO LOVE TO. Exercise restraint to type stupid nonsense posts on here that will only invoke many to troll and flame you. If you have no context to the topic or believe you do may I suggest the George Costanza method. Whatever you think, do the opposite, I trust you'll have better results as he did.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

I was thinking about the other side of it. How great it would be to have 7am to noon blocked off on my calendar every day to "train how I race". That would include trail runs in the redwoods, swims in Lake Tahoe, bike rides through Napa vineyards.

But then there's that pesky wife of mine that I actually like to spend time with, the daughter who may not think being ignored by her dad is super great, and worst of all is the stupid job that keeps us housed, clothed, fed, and able to pursue expensive and time-consuming recreational activities.

But if I'm fat, that's on me. I get to choose what I put in my mouth and am fortunate enough to be able to afford as many vegetables as I want.

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

Yeah but it works. Im guessing you aren't eating your eggplant out of a Kona Champion's bowl so maybe step off. There are multiple ways to get world class lean, I would bet almost all of them involve going to bed hungry.

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Professional Athlete: http://jordancheyne.wordpress.com/ http://www.strava.com/athletes/145340

Coaching Services:http://www.peakformcoaching.com/

Not hard to do when you're expending 8000 calories a day

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Oh the irony.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Does this still presume the calorie intake will be somewhat reasonable (not an entire large supreme pizza), the food is high quality nutrition-wise and it will be followed with training to burn it off? I'm just thinking the ice cream and chips I had this morning are destined to become fat...but it's ok cuz my last race of the season was this past weekend and I've got a cold and I'm on a training break. :)