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80/20 HR or Power?
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skutter
Dec 6, 20 0:47
Post #1 of 11 (1716 views)
Looking at the 80/20 half ironman beginner program.

was thinking to do everything HR based (my TT has a built in power meter but not one on my bike)

BUT as a noob I'm not sure...is it better to train with power?

I did a long zone 2 ride on zwift(using their recommended power zones) whilst checking my HR every 5 minutes and it was pretty spot on... though took a long while for my heart to get up to it...but then with cardiac drift I was near the upper limit after a couple of hours.... I like. the theory behind HR training...I work in a very physical job...real life stress (I e I could get killed) and notice how when over worked. / stressed my heart rate sits higher than when I'm fresh so figure following HR method will take this more into account and help avoid overtraining

Any thoughts on this....

Also it's 32 weeks until my HIM effort... should I start an 18 week training plan now?

any feedback much appreciated.
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Re: 80/20 HR or Power? [skutter] [ In reply to ]
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FasterTwitch
Dec 6, 20 4:07
Post #2 of 11 (1664 views)
Have you read the book?
It clearly states the order of precision from lowest to highest: Rate of Perceived Exertion/Pace(swimming)/Heart Rate/Power.
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Re: 80/20 HR or Power? [skutter] [ In reply to ]
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marcag
Dec 6, 20 4:16
Post #3 of 11 (1657 views)
So if you are doing 80/20 you are doing something like 80% of your workouts easy and 20% hard.

I don't know what your "hard" workouts look like but often they include shorter intervals. HR doesn't work as well here.

So if it was me, if power isn't always available, I would do the easy workouts with HR.
I would use power for the hard workouts on the bike and pace for the hard runs. I don't find HR works as well here especially if you are new to this. After a while you learn how your HR responds to these type of intervals.
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Re: 80/20 HR or Power? [FasterTwitch] [ In reply to ]
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skutter
Dec 6, 20 7:31
Post #4 of 11 (1578 views)
Havent read the book, but decided to have a look at training peaks and came across the 80/20 plans and I like the idea so was going to order one. Thing is when you order the plan it asks if you want it based on E.g Running HR Bike Power or Running Pace Bike Power - and Running HR and Bike HR - swimming is always done at pace. So just wondering which plan I should opt for.

Im new to this never done structured training before

Also interested on how cardiac drift effects HR based training but that's for another day on research...
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Re: 80/20 HR or Power? [skutter] [ In reply to ]
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TriA6
Dec 6, 20 13:31
Post #5 of 11 (1541 views)
I have read both books and used several 80/20 plans. I like to use pace on the swim, power on the bike and pace on the run. The great thing about 80/20 is that Dan and Matt are very fair and will probably allow you to switch plans if you just have to. There is no plan for perceived exertion, @fast twitch. Experience has taught me that it is best to have another metric as a backup for racing. If you haven't had a race where your watch or powermeter fail, you will. Having a backup metric is smart.
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Re: 80/20 HR or Power? [skutter] [ In reply to ]
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TriA6
Dec 6, 20 13:33
Post #6 of 11 (1538 views)
Sign up for a Gold suscription and get a book for free.
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Re: 80/20 HR or Power? [skutter] [ In reply to ]
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damon.lebeouf
Dec 6, 20 17:13
Post #7 of 11 (1483 views)
as an 80/20 subscriber ill say this...

to heck with HR. HR can vary so much from workout to workout depending on what you ate last night, to how you slept last night, to what the temp is during your workout. HR is hardly ever a metric i keep up and front that i can look at... go with power (on the bike at least). if youre talking about the run thats the where TO ME it gets muddled. i dont really trust the run pods for your shoes (stryd) from what ive seen from a more than one pod...they all ready different. however pace is pretty consistent and you can extrapolate the same "feel" versus HR as you can power.

for me its bike power / run pace.
80/20 Endurance Ambassador
Last edited by: damon.lebeouf: Dec 6, 20 17:14
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Re: 80/20 HR or Power? [damon.lebeouf] [ In reply to ]
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skutter
Dec 6, 20 21:06
Post #8 of 11 (1439 views)
But isn't the main advantage of HR training that it takes those factors into account (i.e the variables that affect HR ) which can reduce risk of overtraining / burnout? Also perhaps easiest to adjust for climate e.g head winds / current in ow...as you will have to work harder to produce same pace / power....I guess I will experiment and see what's best but by the sounds of it a combination would be the way to go....
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Re: 80/20 HR or Power? [skutter] [ In reply to ]
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BigHammer
Dec 6, 20 22:15
Post #9 of 11 (1419 views)
There is a v recent podcast on That Triathlon Show when this topic is covered. The interviewee (Inigo San Milan, coach of Pogacar) takes the view that the “watts are watts” argument is flawed and that watts are in fact a secondary measure of mechanical energy, rather than metabolic energy (I think).

IIRC, he recommends using heart rate as the determining factor for the 80% portion, and notes that cardiac drift of 10bpm is within normal limits, but drift of, say, 20 bpm suggests a different metabolic mechanism is in play.

I may have misrepresented his view; I would need to listen to it again. In fact, I probably will anyway - it was an excellent excellent podcast.
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Re: 80/20 HR or Power? [skutter] [ In reply to ]
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dennism
Dec 7, 20 5:28
Post #10 of 11 (1323 views)
Have the book as well
Swim - RPE + stopwatch
Bike - power
Run - pace for steady/harder runs, HR for EZ runs
"Pain is NOT temporary,you remember every bit of it"
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Re: 80/20 HR or Power? [BigHammer] [ In reply to ]
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gregkeller
Dec 7, 20 8:31
Post #11 of 11 (1281 views)
I've got the book, and for a while signed up for the subscription plan. I think using HR as a guide for the lower intensity stuff is perfectly fine. The shorter high end stuff (there really isn't a ton of longer high end stuff) is tough to use HR for because it takes a while for HR to get into the zone. TrainingPeaks will allow you to get all your zones using the 80/20 calcs, so maybe you buy the bike power/run pace plan, and when doing your high end work on the bike, if you are outside, you go by feel and HR, but indoors you can use power to sort of calibrate your PE and HR.
USAT Level 1 Coach
Team Next Level
http://goteamnltri.com/
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