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70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace
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Curious - How do they compare for you?
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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [vittorio] [ In reply to ]
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When properly trained, I’ve found they should be almost the same. I also find that my open half marathon pace equates to my Olympic run pace and open 10k to sprint tri run pace.

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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [natethomas] [ In reply to ]
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natethomas wrote:
When properly trained, I’ve found they should be almost the same. I also find that my open half marathon pace equates to my Olympic run pace and open 10k to sprint tri run pace.


If this is correct, then I'm a much faster half marathon runner than I thought!!

I tend to agree that your HIM is basically your open marathon. But I've found your Olympic run should be much closer to your open 10k than your open half marathon.

*Never done a sprint in my life.
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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [natethomas] [ In reply to ]
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natethomas wrote:
When properly trained, I’ve found they should be almost the same. I also find that my open half marathon pace equates to my Olympic run pace and open 10k to sprint tri run pace.

That's pretty much what I've been thinking, but I've never ran an open marathon, just an IM marathon ("ran").

My last 70.3 I ran 4.25/km after a 2h20 bike, I am training for a marathon in 4 wks, but holding that pace seems a bit ambitious.
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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [vittorio] [ In reply to ]
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for me, my marathon pace is def not slower than the 70.3 pace.. its about the same at 4'33"/km . So i guess you theoretically should be able to hold 4'25" :-) . Remember, you'll have fresh legs.. that's a game changer compared to the IM run :-)
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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [maarten.claes] [ In reply to ]
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maarten.claes wrote:
for me, my marathon pace is def not slower than the 70.3 pace.. its about the same at 4'33"/km . So i guess you theoretically should be able to hold 4'25" :-) . Remember, you'll have fresh legs.. that's a game changer compared to the IM run :-)

Yeah, but holding that pace for 90' is one thing, on heavy legs or not. Doing it for 3+h is also a game changer, haha...
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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [vittorio] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting question! I can't help on longer distances (reasons below) but shorter ones I can say, very little coherence for me. No matter how well trained, I will likely always run a faster HM than I can run an Oly 10k because I am near red-lining the bike. I would like to think I would have the same result for a marathon relative to 70.3 run but I never get past 30kms without falling apart so I'll never know.

3m (not a 5k, both advertised as such but were actually 3m)
open: 17:47 (3:41/k)
tri: 18:30 (3:49/k)

10k
open: 38:36 (3:51/k)
tri: 40:31 (4:03/k)

HM
open: 1:22:41 (3:55/k)
tri: 1:31:35 (4:20/k)

Full (of epic meltdowns)
open: 4:43 (slow/k)
tri: 4:06 (always slow/k)

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo
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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [vittorio] [ In reply to ]
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Never really though thought about this one.. but they are pretty close. Interesting.

Best HIM: 1:20
Best Open: 2:46

Caveat to the open and my "pretty close" claim, that one came 2 years ago in the monsoon version of the Boston Marathon. Think I otherwise would have been in the 2:40-42 range.

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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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Given you melted down in actual open marathon, it would be interesting to know if your 70.3 run pace was similar to your "theoretical" open marathon pace using something like a VDOT calculator based on your open 10K and 13.1 times. I guess I could do this myself but it's offseason and I'm feeling lazy!

For this season, my 70.3 run pace was a few seconds slower than my "projected" open 26.2 pace using a VDOT calculator in which I plugged in a recent open 10K, but I sprained my ankle 2 days before my first 70.3 and re-sprained in my 2nd 70.3.

But at a high level, for me, I've found open projected marathon pace to be a good starting point target pace for my 70.3 run.
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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [MrRabbit] [ In reply to ]
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Something is wrong with me:

Best HIM: 1:31
Best OM: 2:48 (Boston)
Best IM: 3:28

I do bike in a normal range of power compared to my abilities, but nonetheless can never seem to run off the bike in distance events. This isn’t the case in shorter triathlons, where I run more typical to open abilities.

Dimond Bikes Superfan
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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi wrote:
Something is wrong with me:

Best HIM: 1:31
Best OM: 2:48 (Boston)
Best IM: 3:28

I do bike in a normal range of power compared to my abilities, but nonetheless can never seem to run off the bike in distance events. This isn’t the case in shorter triathlons, where I run more typical to open abilities.

I hate to be the one chiming in on this because who the fuck am I to say anything with such little info... but you're clearly overbiking (or over swimming).
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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [BrentwoodTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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BrentwoodTriGuy wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
Something is wrong with me:

Best HIM: 1:31
Best OM: 2:48 (Boston)
Best IM: 3:28

I do bike in a normal range of power compared to my abilities, but nonetheless can never seem to run off the bike in distance events. This isn’t the case in shorter triathlons, where I run more typical to open abilities.

I hate to be the one chiming in on this because who the fuck am I to say anything with such little info... but you're clearly overbiking (or over swimming).

You know, that’s the easy answer, except I don’t think it’s the correct one. I have troubles with low back tightness off the bike in longer races, even races where I have put out extremely low bike power (to try to run better). A couple races it’s been so bad I’ve had to walk, most I just hobble around for 8-10mi and it eventually resolved. I’ve tried a lot of things to fix it, but haven’t solved the puzzle yet. Some day ...

Dimond Bikes Superfan
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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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Bike fit/saddle choice... but thats an obvious guess.
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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [BrentwoodTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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BrentwoodTriGuy wrote:
Bike fit/saddle choice... but thats an obvious guess.

As it turns out, I just got a bike fit today. No revelations, just small tweaks, and some strength and stretching protocol to keep up with. We'll see how it works out in ~5wks.

Dimond Bikes Superfan
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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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Last time I checked, pace equivalent charts had my HM time at 2:53-55. Hah!

Joking aside, if I did open marathon training and fixed my mental blockage of running over 30km, i could probably hit that, but it's still faster than what I would target in a 70.3, i think a great 70.3 for me would be 1:29-1:30

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo
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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi wrote:
BrentwoodTriGuy wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
Something is wrong with me:

Best HIM: 1:31
Best OM: 2:48 (Boston)
Best IM: 3:28

I do bike in a normal range of power compared to my abilities, but nonetheless can never seem to run off the bike in distance events. This isn’t the case in shorter triathlons, where I run more typical to open abilities.

I hate to be the one chiming in on this because who the fuck am I to say anything with such little info... but you're clearly overbiking (or over swimming).

You know, that’s the easy answer, except I don’t think it’s the correct one. I have troubles with low back tightness off the bike in longer races, even races where I have put out extremely low bike power (to try to run better). A couple races it’s been so bad I’ve had to walk, most I just hobble around for 8-10mi and it eventually resolved. I’ve tried a lot of things to fix it, but haven’t solved the puzzle yet. Some day ...

Have you considered bike nutrition? I shaved quite a bit of time off my HIM pace one I figured out how to get >330cals/hour (mostly tailwind) into my stomach while on the bike. Previously HIMs were an exercise in managing the fade, but after the switch, I felt absolutely on fire.

For me, my HIM (1:26) is faster than OM (3:00), though the OM is from a few years ago. I’m going to try for 2:52 at NY in 2 weeks.
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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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timbasile wrote:
Have you considered bike nutrition? I shaved quite a bit of time off my HIM pace one I figured out how to get >330cals/hour (mostly tailwind) into my stomach while on the bike. Previously HIMs were an exercise in managing the fade, but after the switch, I felt absolutely on fire.

For me, my HIM (1:26) is faster than OM (3:00), though the OM is from a few years ago. I’m going to try for 2:52 at NY in 2 weeks.

I am a QT2 coached athlete, so I am constantly barraged with nutrition coaching and have a pretty solid plan. My last half, Texas 70.3 (3 loop run), I neg split and had my fastest loop as the last one (because my back started to feel better). It really is my back, I just have to figure it out . . . I've tried a lot of things with no luck so far. My fitter from yesterday gave me some new stuff to try . . . he is a PT, so had some differentiated ideas . . . so we'll see how it goes. I'm doing IMAZ next month, hoping to run smooth off the bike! Anyhow, this thread doesn't need to be about me, sorry for hijacking it everyone!

Dimond Bikes Superfan
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Re: 70.3 run pace x Open marathon pace [vittorio] [ In reply to ]
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My HIM is exactly half of my open marathon best, down to the second.... 1:12:02, 2:24:04, hoping to go faster at CIM though.
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