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50+ miles running per week
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I hear some people talk about running 50+ miles per week and would love to work my mileage up to something close to that, maybe 40 - 45. What do your weekly runs look like? I imagine your running much faster than me but how many miles per workout and what type of run are they?

What mileage did you see signinficant gains?

KC
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [kevinc] [ In reply to ]
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For me, I'll run 5 times a week, with one long run on the weekend that's at least 12, usually more like 15-20. There'll be a long-ish run mid-week that's usually 11. The rest tend to be 5-8 miles.
It helps that I am able to mix up trail runs and road runs; even more, it helps that I'm able to mix up solo runs, runs with my gf, and runs with my running group.

I free up a lot of time by never ever swimming.

---------------------------------
All that could not sink or swim, were just left there to float.
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [Bob Loblaw] [ In reply to ]
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I assume the 5-8 mile runs are tempo type runs. The longish mid week run is at what pace?
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [kevinc] [ In reply to ]
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A typical 50 mile week might look like this for me:

M - Off
T - 10mi easy tempo
W - 2x3mi AT, 9mi total
Th - 8mi easy tempo AM/6mi easy tempo PM
F - Off
S - 6mi very easy
S - 15mi ~M pace + 15-30s

easy tempo for me is typically marathon pace + 45s, but could be faster or slower depending on how I feel. This is just one example week, every week is different.

Ride for show, run for dough.
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [kevinc] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I assume the 5-8 mile runs are tempo type runs. The longish mid week run is at what pace?

I don't worry that much about pace, actually. I'd even say that for much of the year, I don't worry about pace at all. I go faster when I feel like it, slower when I feel like it. The way things work out, there will be enough days when the guys in my running group will feel like gunning it a little, that I'll wind up getting some faster miles in.

If there's an important race approaching, I'll get more structured, and have a mix of track workouts and tempo runs. (My normal running has enough hills in it that I rarely do specific hill workouts). But even then, I'll do plenty of 5-8 mile runs that are just basic runs. I'd guess anywhere from 7:45 to 9 minute miles, depending on the terrain, who I'm running with, and how I'm feeling (up to 10 minute miles on technical and/or hilly trails). My marathon race pace, for comparison, is a little under 7 minutes per mile.

The longish mid week run pace depends mostly on if I had enough sleep the night before, if there is good scenery on the running path, etc Last week it was pretty fast, just because it was cold and rainy and i wanted to get home.

---------------------------------
All that could not sink or swim, were just left there to float.
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [kevinc] [ In reply to ]
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The problem most triathletes have which inhibits them from ever running close to their potential is their standard bread and butter run is 3-4 miles.

Fix that and running 50 mpw means you can get your 50 off of 5-6 runs no worries.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [kevinc] [ In reply to ]
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I run 70+ per week. I keep it simple. Daily runs of 8-12 miles. If I'm training for a specific race like a marathon, I'll lengthen a run out to 20 or so miles. When I was running 50 MPW, it was daily runs of 6-8 miles. For the most part I run at whatever pace I feel like on any particular day. Some days are faster than others, some have speed during a run., but most are at an easy pace. I very rarely spend time running at race pace during training, but I race very often so that's when I run hard.

IMO, if the goal is base building the key is just getting in the miles on a consistent basis. The structured plans with intervals, tempos, and long runs are what I do in a race specific plan, not for base training.

Don

Tri-ing to have fun. Anything else is just a bonus!
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [kevinc] [ In reply to ]
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My 40mi week looks like this:
Day1 8mi to include 4x1200m(3min)I-pace
Day2 5mi easy
Day3 10mi to include 6mi@T-pace
Day4 5mi easy
Day5 off
Day6 8mi to include 8x400m(400m) R-pace
Day7 5mi easy

This is modified Daniels 5-15k, Phase III, Week 2. Do not attempt this alone at home as injury may result. If you have never ran before 40mi/week, doing this and building mileage may hurt you.
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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I've experienced the opposite with triathletes - 3 and 4 mile runs being too short for consideration in a program and are completely skipped while building volume on 3 or 4 runs per week. I feel this (as mentioned in another thread) is more the case for a majority of athletes. I'm building to 50 with weeks that look like:

Mon - 3-4 mi ez
Tues - 8-9 w/ some tempo (:20 - 30 mins total)
Wed - 4-5 ez
Thurs - 8-9 w/ some strides
Fri - 3-4 ez
Sat off (training not possible due to work schedule)
Sun - 14-16 ez

... and will be adding miles 2-3 at a time (spreading out the additions so each run gets 0.5-1 mile) each week beginning with the shorter runs, then the mid-length runs and finally the long run. Not much speed in there, but while building volume it's definitely better to keep the majority easy.
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [TomkR] [ In reply to ]
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The typical triathlete looks more like this:

Day 1: 3-4
Day 2: 3-4
Day 3: nothing
Day 4: 3-4
Day 5: nothing
Day 6: 12-14
Day 7: nothing

I agree they skip those short runs which in turns means they don't have enough run frequency. When they do run they typically don't run with enough duration day in day out to really make improvements that will matter.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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Let me expand that out about 3 weeks:


In Reply To:
The typical triathlete looks more like this:

Day 1: 3-4
Day 2: 3-4
Day 3: nothing
Day 4: 3-4
Day 5: nothing
Day 6: 12-14
Day 7: nothing
Day 8: ouch ouch ouch ouch
Day 9: running sucks
Day 10: damnit, I have to run
Day 11: 8
Day 12: that wasn't so bad
Day 13: 16
Day 14: ouch ouch ouch ouch
Day 15: ouch ouch ouch ouch
Day 16: running sucks
Day 17: damnit, I have to run
Day 18: 8
Day 19: that wasn't so bad
Day 20: 18
Day 21: ouch ouch ouch ouch
Day 22: ouch ouch ouch
Day 23: I think I have an injury
Day 24: I'm not consistent enough
Day 25: Better sign up for a marathon so I have a goal
Day 26: 22
Day 27: yup, I'm definitely injured
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [kevinc] [ In reply to ]
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Here was my last week....

Monday - Run Club 4.28 Miles easy
Tuesday - 7.22 easy
Weds - 7.06 Track Workout
Thurs - 5.18 Easy
Friday - 7.01 Easy
Sat - Off
Sunday - 11.14 Long

41.89 Miles


-------------------------------
I'm faster in Kilometers!
Wattie Ink Triathlon Team
Powered by Accelerate 3
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [kevinc] [ In reply to ]
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I run 4-5 days per week which comes out to 45-60 miles per week.
1 moderate run
1 tempo or speed run
1 easy 30-40 minute run
1 long run
1 transition run (when on schedule)
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [kevinc] [ In reply to ]
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I only touch 50+ mpw during my peak week before a marathon or 50K. My last one looked like this:

Sun 26.2 mile long run (training marathon)
Mon Cross Train (swim, elliptical)
Tue 5 mile tempo run
Wed 10 mile "mini" long run
Thu 4 mile tempo run plus weights
Fri 6 mile easy run
Sat Cross Train (swim, elliptical, weights)


"Mars is a world completely inhabited by robots from another planet." -- RandMart (paraphrased)
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [kevinc] [ In reply to ]
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I'll throw a different scheduling approach in to mix it up, though this is slightly short of your objective. It might not be ideal and the resident experts may weigh in with warnings, but I haven't raced this year and pretty much follow this schedule because I enjoy running and hate to take the bus. My office being 4.5 miles away and having a clean shower available makes it workable:
M - run commute 4.5 miles, 6 miles
T - bike commute and swim PM
W - run commute 4.5 miles, 6-7 miles with some type of speed if I feel good.
Th - bike commute and swim PM
F - run commute 4.5 miles, 6-7 miles ideally with a few at tempo
Sa - swim, bike, hike or something else non running
Sun - run 8-10, usually trail
Took a year to build the durability to be able to maintain this and feel like it's natural. The winter snows will change it all up and I'll focus on the x-country skiing, but will still run 6-7 times per week regardless. Frequency is king - though I don't really follow Barry P's advice, I think it is an excellent approach.
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [TomkR] [ In reply to ]
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hahaha, classic and yet so true. Sadly many triathletes never quite figure out what is so wrong with that approach.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [kevinc] [ In reply to ]
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A 50 mile bread & butter week for me would look something like this:

Long run (x1): 2:15, easy (usually 4:45-4:55 pace depending on terrain)
Medium runs (x2): 1 @ 1:30, mostly easy with some hill reps (ie 8x1min) or shorter intervals (ie 3x4min) or just using terrain to vary intensity; 1 @ 1:30, mostly easy with the middle 3rd at tempo (or upcoming race pace, if any)
Short runs (x3): 2 @ 0:45, both easy (around 5:00+/- pace); 1 @ 0:10, easy transition run

Total: 6:55, or around 85km (53 miles) give or take.

I'm not advocating you do this, just sayin' ('cos you asked)...

What mileage did you see signinficant gains?

By averaging 80.4km per week (almost 50 miles precisely), min 40, max 100, over a period of 26 weeks this past off-season.



blood, sweat...and big gears

I hated every minute of training, but I said, ''Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.''
- Muhammad Ali
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [kevinc] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not running 50mpw right now, but was not very long ago (and plan to be again after a post-IM break). Here's are two actual weeks, chosen randomly:

Mo: 4 (recovery)
Tu: 7.2
We: 9.6 (including hill repeats)
Th: off
Fr: 10.7
Sa: 3.1 (off the bike)
Su: 18

Mo: 3.1 (recovery)
Tu: 6.3
We: 5.4 (including 400m repeats)
Th: 10
Fr: 7.2
Sa: 18
Su: off


----
Michael
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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It's amazing to me how rarely people do a 50 mile week like this:

Mon: 7.15
Tues: 7.15
Wed: 7.15
Thur: 7.15
Fri: 7.15
Sat: 7.15
Sun: 7.15

Everyone "cheats" with a long run. Sure, long runs are important, especially for marathon and long course tri. But you can get REALLY fast just running a decent amount EVERY day. If we were talking about 1/2 marathon (open or in a 1/2 IM), I'd rather take the guy with this schedule who maybe throws in 3 long runs of say 10-12 miles (which would be a breeze off this base) than the guy who mostly runs 5 miles, but uses a weekly long run to jack up his mileage.
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [kevinc] [ In reply to ]
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Typical week for me looks like this:

M: Rest
T: 8 miles
W: 6 miles
Th: 8 - 11 miles
Fri: 6 miles
Sat.: 8 miles
Sun.: 16 - 18 miles

I'll work in some tempo work on T & Th, otherwise the rest is done at a comfortable pace. Occasionally I'll run the Sunday run at a hard pace.

Mike Sparks


I have competed well, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [denali2001] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
It's amazing to me how rarely people do a 50 mile week like this:

Mon: 7.15
Tues: 7.15
Wed: 7.15
Thur: 7.15
Fri: 7.15
Sat: 7.15
Sun: 7.15

Everyone "cheats" with a long run. Sure, long runs are important, especially for marathon and long course tri. But you can get REALLY fast just running a decent amount EVERY day. If we were talking about 1/2 marathon (open or in a 1/2 IM), I'd rather take the guy with this schedule who maybe throws in 3 long runs of say 10-12 miles (which would be a breeze off this base) than the guy who mostly runs 5 miles, but uses a weekly long run to jack up his mileage.


I don't think anybody uses long runs to "jack up their mileage". What would be the point? The bragging rights to a high mpw figure are pretty weak. Those who do weekly long runs do them because they want to, or due to a specific training plan for a long race. The fact that weekly mileage goes up fast with a long run is irrelevant.

IMO, if training for a 1/2 marathon, a weekly long run in the 12-14 mile range makes sense. For a marathon, make it 20 miles (not every week). For a 50K, do one or two 25 mile runs.


"Mars is a world completely inhabited by robots from another planet." -- RandMart (paraphrased)
Last edited by: MOP_Mike: Nov 7, 10 14:15
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [denali2001] [ In reply to ]
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actually there is a good bit of value in getting to the point where you can run 7-8 miles day in day out and not have it cause you to miss a day, especially if you are doing that with all your other training.

The point I was emphasizing earlier is most triathletes never really get to that point, which no matter how well they bike, leaves them running at a sub optimal pace.

For about 18 months, I didn't run over 10 miles, but was still getting in about 50 per week doing just what you described.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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DD - I've been reading your posts long enough to know that's EXACTLTY where you were going. I just figured I'd make the path to the watering hole clearer. ;)
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [MOP_Mike] [ In reply to ]
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Of course, long runs are valuable especially for the marathon. However, they too often become the focus for people's training and cross the 25% of total weekly volume rule oset out by Daniels and many others. Following this guidance, a regular 15 miler is part of a 60 mpw. Daniels allows exceptions for marathon training, but even then it shouldn't be more than 33% of weekly mileage, which still implies 60 mpw. My point is that you need consistent DAILY mileage to get the most out of your long runs because the long run ends up not being too strenuous. You need good daily mileage before the long run. I believe it was MattinSF who said that speed work was the icing on the cake and before you get to >40 mpw, then you don't even have a cake. To some degree, I think that applies to long runs as well. Until you can run 6 miles everyday without a break, you shouldn't worry about long runs too much.
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Re: 50+ miles running per week [denali2001] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
It's amazing to me how rarely people do a 50 mile week like this:

Mon: 7.15
Tues: 7.15
Wed: 7.15
Thur: 7.15
Fri: 7.15
Sat: 7.15
Sun: 7.15

Everyone "cheats" with a long run. Sure, long runs are important, especially for marathon and long course tri. But you can get REALLY fast just running a decent amount EVERY day. If we were talking about 1/2 marathon (open or in a 1/2 IM), I'd rather take the guy with this schedule who maybe throws in 3 long runs of say 10-12 miles (which would be a breeze off this base) than the guy who mostly runs 5 miles, but uses a weekly long run to jack up his mileage.

This post doesn't make much sense to me. All mass start running race results are primarily determined based on your running AT. Weekly mileage is less correlated to your AT that most people guess. How you structure your weekly mileage is even less correlated. And there is certainly no proof that running the exact same mileage 7 days/week is preferable to, say running longer some days and running less others. I actually believe the opposite.

Ride for show, run for dough.
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