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45 degrees?
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Sorry Dan - nobody who gets 45 degree temperatures in "winter" should be allowed to give advice on cold weather clothing.
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Re: 45 degrees? [gordo] [ In reply to ]
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Does that count me out too? It won't get much above 80 here today?
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Re: 45 degrees? [gordo] [ In reply to ]
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i'm conservative. wide audience and all that. yesterday we rode up until the ice and slow turned us around. actually, i turned around and descended, mark rode up through a chain restriction and kept going. i went down early because somebody had to be the designated driver (mark could go up, but he couldn't descend it).

we'll ride in it, but i'm not going to tell anybody to ride the mountains in freezing temps.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: 45 degrees? [gordo] [ In reply to ]
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45 degrees equals Springtime in Chicago!

My cut off point is the low 20's for running. "Wife beater" coolmax top, long sleeve cotton shirt, and Sport Hill 3SP top and bottom. The cotton seems to work well in the winter as the poly cannot "wick" fast enough to keep me dry.

As for my dog, she runs naked...
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Re: 45 degrees? [scotta] [ In reply to ]
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Gordo beat me to the punch...

Hey just an aside...If one rides in rainy/cooler/cold conditions most "cycling specific" gloves won't do squat. However, 5mm Neoprene Kayaking Gloves ($15 at G.I. Joe's) are excellent. They are shaped to hold a paddle so they work well on your bars. They have neoprene to absorb road shock. They aren't restrictive...AND...Most, importantly, they keep your hands warm when it's 38 degrees and pouring down rain (Portland weather the past 2 weeks).

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Keep the knees warm. [ In reply to ]
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I'll add to the mix the importance of keeping your knees warm. Using some time of warming cream is pretty important on your knees and lower back. I learned this when I raced as a (crappy- off the back) amateur in Europe. In the U.S. warming creams are a bit tricky to find but two really good ones are Body Glide's "Warm FX", nice since it's a roll-on type application and also Cramer Athletic's Atomic Balm. At the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs the resident rules were "No shorts outside under 70 degrees". Use hot cream on your knees and lower back and you'll be happy!

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Keep the knees warm. [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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In the Northwest, the Born Products have become quite popular. The Born "Warming Up," "Protect," and "Protect Extra" are quite effective.

These provide an unparallelled barrier to wind, water, and cold to help protect your knees, lower back, and other exremities.

Atomic Balm is also good, but I prefer the Born Product line.

They can be purchased through Team Sales Cycling (The Distributor in Tigard, Oregon).

http://wattieink.com/elite-team/
Raising funds to help wounded veterans and racing RAAM 2013 with http://team4mil.org/
"If you are gonna charge... CHARGE HARD!"
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Re: 45 degrees? [gordo] [ In reply to ]
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-Not a big fan of the $4 wife beater. I'm a convert of miracle fabrics. I know, $29+ is a lot for base layers, but hey, this stuff goes next to my skin and performs the critical "moisture management" function. The Biemme Coolmax Mesh sleeveless base layer is utter luxury. So are the Bringe (Brinje? sp.?) open weave wicking base layers from Norway. Top notch- you don't get cold and clammy.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: 45 degrees? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
-Not a big fan of the $4 wife beater. I'm a convert of miracle fabrics. I know, $29+ is a lot for base layers, but hey, this stuff goes next to my skin and performs the critical "moisture management" function. The Biemme Coolmax Mesh sleeveless base layer is utter luxury. So are the Bringe (Brinje? sp.?) open weave wicking base layers from Norway. Top notch- you don't get cold and clammy.


We expect nothing less of a fine purveyor of cycling clothing, Tom. ;-)

And, by the way, what are you people doing riding outside in the winter? Haven't you ever heard of a trainer? And a cheap TV/VCR combo? If God wanted us to ride outdoors in cold weather, he would have...I don't know...made us with fur or something.

.
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Re: 45 degrees? [puskas] [ In reply to ]
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Nice tip on the kayaking gloves, I'll have to look out for those.

When I rode a bit in Chicago over the winter [think the coldest I rode was about 18F], I did find the vulcan-salute-type glove/mitten hybrid things worked pretty well.
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Re: 45 degrees? [Julian] [ In reply to ]
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Don't the cotton under-shirt and cotton gloves get wet with sweat? And, thus, make 'em colder than heck? Or is the "wife-beater" made out of some space-age trailer park high-tek top-secret compound that the rest of us have not yet been exposed to? Let us in on it slowman!
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Re: 45 degrees? [Mac] [ In reply to ]
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for me, the wife beater is the miracle garment. if you don't trust $4 cotton, pay $3 and get coolmax, er, polyester.

yes, the cotton gloves get wet. this is why i preach taking a second set with you. they're compact and easy to stow in the jersey pocket. and at 49 1/2 cents per glove it's tough to beat that.

you high-falutin guys can have your expensive stuff if you want. meanwhile i'll be toasty and comfy and i'll have more money for something really worthwhile, like lottery tickets.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: 45 degrees? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Cotton is a poor insulator and doesn't breathe well when damp. Cotton also takes longer to dry. Sleeveless coolmax/synthetic mesh tops are the answer. Water vapor can pass through the open mesh to the next layer. When layered and vented properly, that base layer should stay relatively dry.

The ultimate answer to warm hands are bar mitts (a.k.a. Pogies.) A friend of mine makes some good ones (http://www.trails-edge.com/...irts/amfbikemits.htm) based on the design I'm using. I've used mine in -15F with AmFib lobster mitts -- no problems, but I could have used more chemical heaters.

For shoes, buy a big oversized pair, use vapor barrier socks, and block any mesh on your shoes. I can get my size 9 foot into my size 13.5 Lake winter shoe with a sock liner, vapor barrier (coated nylon), wool sock, and fleece sock -- no bootie. For me, that worked to -15F. Your feet won't be warm but you won't lose toes. It's key to know the difference.

Life begins at 0F. :)
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Re: 45 degrees? [gordo] [ In reply to ]
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45 degrees = singlet.
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Re: 45 degrees? [gordo] [ In reply to ]
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Okay, so Dan's preferred use of a wife-beater has been beaten to death (sorry) - but y'all left out one important point: Dress in such a way that you're slightly chilly for the first 10-15min of your ride/run. If you're nice and toasty at the outset of your trip, you'll overheat within the first 20min, guaranteed. Instead, start of a little cool, and let your body warm up as you go. Even doing this I nearly always end up peeling off my gloves during a run. Somtimes the hat, too. Another reason why layering pays off.


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Re: 45 degrees? [Khai] [ In reply to ]
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10 mile race (run) this am, 40 degrees wind/light-misty rain, coolmax wife-beater, sleeveless coolmax, running vest, baseball hat, desoto powershorts, no gloves, arm-warmers. Pr'd, stayed warm but sweated through everything. Coolmax, schmool-max, taint a garmet made that I can't sweat through :).
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Re: 45 degrees? [Mac] [ In reply to ]
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The cotton gloves do get wet, but when they do, you're usually warm enough to take them off for a while, if not for the rest of your run (I use those cheap, brown gardening gloves). The cotton is also good for wiping the snot off of your face, which will eventually start free-flowing if you're out in the cold long enough. Sounds nasty, but then you just throw in a cold wash load and they're good as new. Well, maybe slightly shrunken if the drier was on too high, but who cares? They're like $5 for four pairs.
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Re: 45 degrees? [gordo] [ In reply to ]
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Well said G!!

I'm looking out the office window at -5C and blowing drifting snow. A ride this evening(in the dark) is out, but I am looking forward to a nice 10K run around the neibourhood. That's what I have always liked about triathlon - you don't have to force the training with the weather, well sometimes you do!

Having worked for one of the main suppliers of high tech run/cycle gear for a number of years, and having a closet full of the stuff, I am well protected from the elements. To me training in foul weather is 50% attitude and 50% having the right gear.

What I love is the range and the challenge of foul weather training and I have seen it all from -30C cross-country ski days to running in India when it was 45C.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: 45 degrees? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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"...What I love is the range and the challenge of foul weather training and I have seen it all from -30C cross-country ski days to running in India when it was 45C..."

It's definitely cold when, after a mile and a half, icicles have formed on your hat and beard and, when you spit, it rolls instead of splats (okay it was -40, but who's counting?). That's hard core weather. 45C? That's just plain suicide! I'd have a rolling sweat going just standing in the shade!
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Re: 45 degrees? [Koz] [ In reply to ]
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I rode 18 miles this morning on some snowy, slushy roads in 20F. While riding, I had to kick my front derailleur to get a shift off the big ring. That's my official start to winter riding. :)
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Re: 45 degrees? [Todd Scott] [ In reply to ]
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Riding in 20 degree weather definitely means you are hard core! When it is that cold I ride the rollers and watch race tapes!

..... also ..... Cotton work gloves rule for most cold days (although when it is 45 degrees out I wear shorts and a long sleeve without any gloves for running). You can buy them in bulk and they work every bit as well as the high-tech gear. I got some fancy dryfit, windproof mitts for Christmas and they were way too hot when it was -2 Celsius. I'll try them out tomorrow when it is supposed to be colder.
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Re: 45 degrees? [Allan] [ In reply to ]
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It´s not winther clothing unless it takes at least half an hour to get the gear on. -24 celsius in Sweden today.




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Re: 45 degrees? [Allan] [ In reply to ]
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I was on an icebiking email list. Some guys from Minnesota thought they were the primo hardcore winter riders, until a doctor from Greenland exchanged stories of riding the icy fjords on a touring bike. But even he was finally outdone as a couple guys from Antarctica sent a picture of themselves on their bikes, resting on the South Pole sign. End of thread.
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Re: 45 degrees? [Todd Scott] [ In reply to ]
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You guys should all know that Todd Scott is an imposter: He poses as a regular human being but, in fact, has anti-freeze in his veins and arteries and never requires food or sleep. He has done the Iditabike (2nd place) a couple times, the Leadville 100 (running and cycling), the Ironman, etc. etc. His training regimen would assasinate most Ironmen. This is a tough guy. He is only acting like a normal person. Beware, if you take his training advice (do a 100 mile mountain bike ride at 15 degrees fahrenheit then go for a long run and snow shoe, you can sleep tomorrow...) You will not survive.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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