Yes. People exaggerate how hard it is to ride with an 808. Don't be those people.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I dont see much of a handling difference between 404/808 honestly,. I dont think either handles all that great but the 808 is not any harder so go for it...it is faster

I doubt even notice the difference in handling, but you will notice the difference in speed!

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"Suddenly the thought struck me. My floor is someone elses ceiling"-Nils Ferlin

2nd/3rd/4th everyone here. I feel like you need to go down to 303 to feel a handling difference from the 808

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

I agree with the others, you'll likely have no trouble handling the 808. Zips used to have a chart showing time savings for their wheels, but I can't find it. Using Flo's charts, the difference between 60s and 90s is 7 seconds for a full Ironman. For the sake of argument, let's say Zipps are wicked good and you'll save 4 times that much. 30 seconds in a full. Buy it because you want to, nothing wrong with that.

But if you do TTs, seconds count. Get it for sure!

Is that at zero yaw? As the wind angle increases I'd expect a bit more difference and a larger delta at higher angles, maybe 2-4x that. On the other hand who rides 180k where the wind is a constant x.x yaw angle?

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I don't know. And I haven't looked at their site in a while. I don't know if they published their yaw sweep. I know they had a white paper (my term) posted, I just can't remember the details anymore.

Even at 4x the savings, that's only 28 seconds over a ~5 hour ride. Hardly worth the headache of handling a deeper rim if the winds do kick up. I'm also only 145 lbs so I could be biased!

Is the difference between an 808 and 404 seriously only 5 sec over a 40K TT?

wintershade wrote:

Is the difference between an 808 and 404 seriously only 5 sec over a 40K TT?

What 99% of athletes should be worried about are what I like to call "Large Magnitude Changes." Large magnitude changes are responsible for most of the benefits you gain by purchasing a product.
Focussing on the finer details, what I like to call "Small Magnitude Changes," is likely a waste of time. Small magnitude changes will only deliver a fraction of the benefit received by a large magnitude change.


Large Magnitude Changes
When it comes to wheels, the most significant change you can make is switching from training wheels to race wheels. For example, a FLO 60/90 carbon clincher wheelset is 6 minutes and 19 seconds faster in Kona than a set of Mavic Open Pro wheels. Focusing on changes of this magnitude makes sense.


Small Magnitude Changes
Here is where people start to lose sight. Let's say you can't decide between a front FLO 60 and front FLO 90. As a result, you haven't bought wheels. What you're forgetting is the time difference in Kona between these two wheels is one second. Yes, one second. Moral of the story, focus on the six minutes, not the one second. Don't let indecision over one second keep you from saving six minutes at your next Ironman.


These large magnitude and small magnitude changes aren't unique to FLO wheels. The same can be said for any reputable brand selling race wheels. In my opinion, and in the opinion of others, the difference between brands is a small magnitude change.


Wind tunnel studies have countless variables. It's next to impossible to design the perfect test. Enve could be faster than Zipp or FLO in one study, but slower than both Zipp and FLO in another.


What's important to understand is getting race wheels is 99% of the battle. What brand you choose ultimately comes down to what is best for YOU.


If your team gets a sweet deal on Enve wheels, you should probably buy Enve wheels. If you want well-designed wheels, affordable prices, and the ability to call the owners on their cell phones, FLO wheels might be for you.

This logic applies to far more than wheels. If you buy a bike that tests slightly faster instead of a bike that fits, you made the wrong decision. If your hydration is super aero, but you struggle to take a drink, you missed the point of this article. Sometimes, what appears to be slower actually makes you faster.


Focus on large magnitude changes and don't stress over the small stuff. Instead, spend time doing what you love, riding your bike.

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Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

And that's much of why I just run ~60mm wheels: not needing extenders for butyl tubes is worth more to me than whatever tiny drag difference exists.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

I mean, I also just wonder -- before every race there is a fair amount of anxiety around whether to run the 303, 404, or 808 front. I'm not yet on the podium, so seems like I'd just have more fun leaving the 404s on there and calling it a day.

Gonna suck if he loses by 1 second though...…

Haha! Yes that would definitely suck ;)

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Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

I would love to lose by 1 sec. ;) Hey I'd take losing by 1 min.

I was 2nd in an age group state TT championship by 3.8 seconds. The distance was 35k. I have seen years where first through third is separated by less than 5 seconds. Probably one year in three, we have either an age bracket or a USAC category won by less than a second.