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3 Disciplines USAT de-sanctioning: Comments?
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I recently received some communication from USAT officials and other administrative/official parties within the sport of triathlon regarding events produced by 3 Disciplines Racing. 3 Disciplines race production company has produced events in Michigan and Arizona for several years. One week after my correspondence with these parties I have been forwarded an e-mail by another party with news that 3 Disciplines Racing will no longer have access to USAT sanctioning for their events. I do not have complete details on these circumstances, and, because the information I have is fragmentary, I will limit my comments to the above information- which I know to factual. What I would like is commentary and opinions from participants in 3 Disciplines events. I am soliciting this information ina public forum for the following reasons:

1. I would like to write an editorial on this topic and, in the interest of journalistic integrity, need to get an ecclectic, broad-based sample of opinions and information before I begin to form my own.
2. Additional information of any kind about events produced by 3 Disciplines Racing is likely to reveal a more accurate picture of the activities surrounding these events- whatever they may be.
3. Awareness of the circumstances surrounding these actions are a matter of significance to persons making buying decisions when selecting races they will participate in for the 2004 season.
4. Bikesport, Inc.- my business, has sponsored one 3 Disciplines event and has considered sponsoring others but has refrained from doing so pending the outcome of this inquiry and also because we are firmly commited to another race production with an perfect track record.

Please let us know your thoughts and comments.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: 3 Disciplines USAT de-sanctioning: Comments? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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here is what i believe i know:

1. about 25% of all the RDs around the country are in some sort of late status with USAT. specifically, RDs collect license fees, as in one-day fees ($9 per head) and they remit these fees to USAT after the race. the federation gets these moneys eventually, but many RDs are late.

2. there is one RD that is apparently very late, that is, several races worth of one-days are owed. i have this from a source inside USAT. it amounts to a lot of money.

3. i believe this RD is in the great lakes area, and a michigan-based person told me the RD is in or around michigan.

4. i don't know if this is 3-disciplines. but when you put it all together, this is the one reason i can think of that USAT would stop doing business with an RD, save a safety issue or a rules issue.

5. i write all this because i've got no idea what you're planning on saying in your oped, but you shouldn't necessarily assume that USAT is ceasing its relationship with 3-disciplines because of the quality of the races it puts on. if it does turn out to be a non-payment issue, it seems to me hard for USAT to do anything other than what it's done, save setting up some sort of situation where it "garnishes" an RD's entry fees directly from the online registration engine (and in that case the RD would have to agree to it).

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: 3 Disciplines USAT de-sanctioning: Comments? [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting insight. For your information, this is completely different information than what I have received. And, to re-state: I know that I am writing an editorial (my first in quite a while) on this topic but do not know what I will have to say on the topic yet. It seems only fair that I try to gather information from as many sources as possible before I craft any opinion. I look forward to hearing more from other Slowtwitch forum contributors. Also, for "lurkers" on this forum (and I know there are a TON of them), this is a golden opportunity for you to get a user name and voice your opinion on a critically important topic.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: 3 Disciplines USAT de-sanctioning: Comments? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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I only participated in one event with 3D, the Willow Duathlon, the one I believe you sponsored, as I know you were there. I don't have to tell you the problems they had that day. At face value, I can't completely blame 3D, as a lot of factors came together that contributed to the problems (weather and first year event in a new location being the main factors). However, I was forwarded correspondence between Kenny and another participant who voiced his disappointment with the event. I was not impressed at all with the way Kenny handled the situation and he came across extremely unproffesional in the discussion, not accepting any blame for the problems or offering any apologies. His unprofessional handling of that situation made me wonder about how much might have been his fault with the way that race ended up.

Furthermore, the circumstances that went into how this race came about were rather sketchy as well (information I got from talking to you about it) since it seemed Kenny announced this race as a replacement for the Grosse Ile Duathlon, a race he was never a race director for and therefore was a bit out of line in so doing. Not that you directly said this, but it seemed like he kind of took advantage of the situation between the Grosse Ile Du director and the church were the race was held in order to get all the Grosse Ile participants to his race by announcing it as the replacement before the Grosse Ile Du was ever officially canceled. Correct me if I'm wrong.

In addition to these experiences with 3D, I applied for a USAT membership at the Willow Duathlon. Subsequently, there is no record of it at USAT. I have emailed Kenny several times, to which he has responded it was sent out.

So my experiences with 3D, while brief, have not been good. I'm willing to chalk it up to bad luck and mitigating circumstances, but all this stuff along with the USAT thing has to really call these guys into question. I can't say I'm suprised by the announcement.

---------------------------------------------------------

"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."
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Re: 3 Disciplines USAT de-sanctioning: Comments? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Tom, I just sent you a PM regarding this situation.
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Re: 3 Disciplines USAT de-sanctioning: Comments? [Jack in Mi] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for your input. The incident at Willow bears clarification. An important corner on the bike course was not adequately marshalled or signed according to a large number of competitors, perhaps a majority of the field, who missed that turn. I was particularly disappointed in this since I had a meeting with the race director prior to the start of the event to conduct a map reconaisance of the course so I would be familiar with the course while serving in my capacity as race announcer. During this review of the course map I voiced concern over this corner of the course, specifically asking about the marshalling that would be there. I was told the marshalling would be adequate, was already arranged and there was signage at this key turn as well. Feedback from athletes who missed the turn AND made the turn indicate to me that the degree of marshalling at this turn was less or diferent than what was represented to me by the race director prior to the start of the event in our meeting. I am profoundly disappointed by this. In my opinion, the events that precipitated athletes getting lost on the course at Willow were easily avoidable, and were openly addressed by me, verbally and specifically, prior to the start of the event. I clearly identified the turn in question as a key concern and made specific inquiries as to the degree of marshalling, signage and directional guidance that would be afforded athletes at that location on the course. The race director assured me the resources were in place to stage the event as represented and I placed my trust in that. My trust was violated. While it is not entirely uncommon for athletes to get lost or be misdirected on a triathlon course, this incident was extraodinary to me for two reasons:

1. The number of athletes involved.
2. The issue was addressed by me prior to the start of the event.

We sponsored this event as a way to expereiment with assisting 3 Disciplines in promoting and growing the psort i our state. The promise of a race production company that was willing to host new events and revive old ones is not only attractive to us, but vital to the growth of my business. In retrospect, I am disappointed that our involvement in the Willow Duathlon has become a partially negative reflection on our sponsorship of the event, especially when I took proactive steps prior to the event to rectify the very problem that mitigated its compromise.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: 3 Disciplines USAT de-sanctioning: Comments? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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did one race only with them...
fastest swim time for the 1500m was 31'! After that, we were told that it was because the wind blew up some buoys and they had to reinstall the course (started was delayed by about 20 or 30')...

Considering the swim was along the shore of a rectangular artificial lake, how can you be off by nearly 800m when all you have to do is ride a bike along the shore and say "turn around here" or even easier, remember roughly were the buoys were.

The bike course was PACKED. Drafting was never an issue as the real issue was trying not to crash in someone...

hte breakdown of prize money was odd and $100 were taken away for the top 5 (for entry in a half IM later) without even asking the top 5.

can't say I was thrilled by the organization...
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Re: 3 Disciplines USAT de-sanctioning: Comments? [jaylew] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you jaylew, and also thank you to the others who have sent me e-mails and pm's regarding these circumstances.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: 3 Disciplines USAT de-sanctioning: Comments? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Just to clarify, I in no way thought bikesport had anything to do with the problems that day. Hope that was clear. I just wanted to add my personal experiences with 3D, which have been less than satisfactory.

---------------------------------------------------------

"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."
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Re: 3 Disciplines USAT de-sanctioning: Comments? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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as i sit here reading all these comments, all i can say is that i am absolutely floored!!!

i live across the border just outside of windsor. my wife and i just had our first baby this past march, so we were looking for races close to home for this season (we have been doing the subaru tri series races in and around the southern ontario area for the 3 seasons prior to this. i think the race director is trisport or some such name. graham fraser's brother heads it i think, but i'm going off topic). we came across the 3 disciplines series over the off season last winter and decided to give it a shot. I personally participated at 3 of their events (big fish tri (sprint), paul bunyan (1/2 im), and stony creek (oly)) and my wife just did the autumn colors tri (sprint) this morning. after 4 races, all we have is praise for this organization. as anyone who has done any of the subaru tri series races in ontario can tell you, they run a tight ship. very organized, top notch events. from our experience, the 3 disciplines races were about as well organized and efficiently run as any we've ever done. now keep in mind, i'm speaking strictly as a participant. i have absolutely no idea what goes on behind the scenes. as far as who owes who money or whether or not the race director is a saint or an asshole i have no idea. i can and will, however, vouch for the fact that the 4 races i was a part of were great, and that i did not hear as much as 1 person complaining about any of them.

do keep us posted about this issue tom. my wife registered for the race online a few weeks ago and they refunded her 1 day usat registration fee this morning before the race because it was not usat sanctioned. at the time, we just figured it was because it was a late season race that it was not a part of their points series. we were planning on participating in their races again next season (and probably still will, whether or not they are usat sanctioned) but i still would like to know what's going on!

____________________________________________________________
"I'm happy when life's good,
and when it's bad I cry.
I've got values but I don't know how or why."
- The Who
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3d loses USAT sanctioning - additional details. [ In reply to ]
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As may be surmised from the discussion to date, USAT had/has two basic problems with 3Disciplines; one was safety (as exemplified by the discussion in this thread), the other was the failure to submit license fees and applications. As to the latter, Slowman's information was right on target.

What has not been discussed, however, is USAT's effort to find a solution. Most of the licenses and fees, some over four months tardy, appeared in USAT's office on September 16 (a couple of weeks after USAT got on 3d's case) - but USAT remained concerned that (1) less than acceptable organization by 3d posed unjustifiable risks of injury and might thereby threaten USAT's blanket insurance policy (upon which much of the sport in the U.S. depends), (2) 3d's failure to remit license fees in a timely fashion was symtomactic of deeper financial distress, and (3) 3d's failure to timely file license applications would significantly irritate one of USAT's prime constituencies (the schmoes like us who enter these races).

USAT offered 3d a compromise solution. USAT would continue to sanction 3d events, but only if 3d accepted a type of "probation". Specifically, a USAT official would be assigned to monitor issues related to the organization and production of 3d events. This official would be present at each race and would be actively involved in matters relating to licensing and safety. And 3d would have to pay the expenses of this official.

3d rejected this compromise offer, apparently feeling they had done nothing wrong. USAT then revoked its sanction of any future 3d race. 3d has sent at least one defiant e-mail to a wider audience, indicating its events would go forward nonetheless. But everyone considering a future 3d event needs to seriously think about one thing. On an event by event basis, it is possible to get at least the color of liability coverage from the owner of the primary facility (YMCA camps come to mind). Or, on even fewer occasions, an event may find a municipality willing to self-insure. But, and this is an important "but", there is no current credible alternative to USAT's liability policy that is available to the ordinary race.

So . . . do you want to participate in a race that might be less than perfectly insured? Or, not insured at all? And if a serious injury occurs in such an event, what risk will the resulting mess pose to our sport as a whole?

Lew
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Re: 3d loses USAT sanctioning - additional details. [Lew] [ In reply to ]
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there is a short blurb on USA triathlon's web site and copied on runnersweb.com site saying that the rest of the 3D events this year (4) will not be USAT sanctioned.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Pretty sure I did the same race....... [ In reply to ]
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unless 3d did another "Olympic" diatance race with a 2000+ meter swim ;-).

You are right on in your assessment of the swim course difficulties and the problems on the bike course. I have yet to do a race that rivals the crowded conditions that were present..........it was a circus!

I had a few other issues with that race as well:

1) I went to the website after the disappointing race and checked to see what was "promised" in camparison to what was delivered. No live band, no unique awards (unless you consider home-made pine plaques unique.........well, I guess they were, it was undoubtably the cheesiest award I have every received), no post race buffet. And this was not a cheap race!

2) Results have still not been posted on the USAT listing of races.

3) Clients who filled out USAT applications and paid the yearly fee never received cards or info from USAT.

4) Upon being questioned about the swim distance.........my time was over 6 minutes slower than any of the 3 1/2 IM swims I did this year........the RD repeatedly insisted that the course was "exactly 2000 meters!" despite the fact that all of the top elites had very slow swims for 2000 meters. If he knew it was exactly 2000, why couldn't he make it exactly 1500.

I have heard through the "local" grapevine that someone has purchased 3 Disciplines and is trying to turn things around. Word has it that he is a class act........but who knows? They are supposed to be doing a 1/2 IM in November and I was planning to give them one more shot. I may have to reconsider.

G


It's a little like wrestling a gorilla.........you don't stop when you're tired.........you stop when the gorilla is tired.
Last edited by: gleveq: Sep 28, 03 18:12
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Re: 3d loses USAT sanctioning - additional details. [Lew] [ In reply to ]
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what has been unsafe at their races?

was it an isolated incident (race) or common in all of their events?

are we all talking about the michigan events, or are some of you referring to events in the arizona series?

____________________________________________________________
"I'm happy when life's good,
and when it's bad I cry.
I've got values but I don't know how or why."
- The Who
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Re: 3d loses USAT sanctioning - additional details. [Lew] [ In reply to ]
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"So . . . do you want to participate in a race that might be less than perfectly insured? Or, not insured at all? And if a serious injury occurs in such an event, what risk will the resulting mess pose to our sport as a whole? "

Thread drift here - IMO we all assume a level of risk when we toe the line at a race. If I crash my bike, it's my own fault and I'm not going to go looking for someone to sue. USAT sanctioning means nothing to me as a competitor.

BUT, I do think it is a good thing for race directors and venue donors as it gives them some protection from those who would try to profit from an unfortunate situation.
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Re: 3d loses USAT sanctioning - additional details. [john] [ In reply to ]
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I have done several and volunteered at several of the AZ events through out the years.
All of the races I've been in have been well run and safe. Mostly out-n-back or loop bikes and the same for the run. I have seen problems with long swim courses and registration when I volunteered at tempe. Show me a race where everything runs like clockwork though.
Would I do his races again, yes. Could things be improved, again yes.
Am I concerned about USAT sanctioned or not, no. I am concerned if there is no insurance. I assume responsibility for my actions but do expect a race to be properly insured. USAT or otherwise.
In AZ, 3D produces almost all of the duathlons and probably 20-25% of the tris. I'd would be a unfortunate if 3D was not there. It would be a greater travesity if they were there, put on a race with no insurance and something bad happened.
I hope it all gets worked out for the best, lessons are learned and the things needing improving improve. Multisport needs promoters willing to put on safe races.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: 3d loses USAT sanctioning - additional details. [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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As a business owner, the proper insurance is paramount, number one priority. To not be properly covered is irresponsible and reckless not only for a business owner, but also its employees, and customers.

That being said, my issue is the first time athlete that registers for a race, decides to buy an annual race licence and waits over 4 months for the licence. That is bullshit. If that happened to me, my first impression would be the slow turn around time of USAT is, not knowing they depend on the RD to process the paperwork. This sport is expensive as it is, and with the entry fees being charged it is hard to believe that 3D can't pay it's bills, unless there is more to the story that we as outsiders cannot and probably will not see.

It is a shame that this is happening, with so many local races filling up months before the race, it was nice top have an alternative race series to compete in. I hope 3D can get the issues resolved with USAT.
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Re: 3d loses USAT sanctioning - additional details. [jTenniswood] [ In reply to ]
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Another interesting set of issues. In most, if not all of its Michigan races, 3d charged $10 for USAT's one-day licenses - which means, I assume, they just pocketed the $1 difference. One could argue that USAT SHOULD be paying a commission anyway . . . after all, the race organizer must allot precious manpower to check current licensees, sell licenses to those who don't have one, bank the cash, then do the accounting and remittal. But should an individual organizer have the power for what amounts to a defacto change in USAT's license policy? Given USAT's experience with high one-day fees in the late 80's and early 90's, the current one-day price has crept dangerously high as it is.

Lew
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Re: 3d loses USAT sanctioning - additional details. [john] [ In reply to ]
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"USAT sanctioning means nothing to me as a competitor."

Really? How about having an event to enter? Look, in most cases, USAT's insurance program is an absolute condition precedent to the event even happening in the first place. In most cases, the venue owners and the surrounding municipality(s) require liability insurance. No insurance, no permit. No permit, no race.

Like to do domestic Ironman races? Sorry, in today's market, they wouldn't happen without USAT's program. Danskin series? Ditto. Escape from Alcatraz, Treasure Island, Wildflower, or any of Terry Davis' other races? Ditto, again. All but a few of the one-thousand plus events currently sanctioned by USAT? You got it - the answer is the same.

Fact is, there just is not a current liability program to compete with USAT. And, if USAT's loss history was to take a negative turn, that program could be in jeopardy as well. So, argue with USAT's administration of the sport; god knows, there is lots of meat in that locker. But don't argue their relevance - that is just a given.

Lew

Lew
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Re: 3d loses USAT sanctioning - additional details. [Lew] [ In reply to ]
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Fortunately there are still about a half dozen races in this area that have not given in to USAT. I make it a point to race all those races. I find that paying USAT $9 gives me no more pleasure in my racing. Maybe if I didn't have my own medical and life insurance I would feel differently. But to me a USAT race just means it costs a whole lot more in one day fees and entry fees.

As I said, I can understand why race directors and such like USAT. It gives them a cheap ($250?) source of insurance. If I was a race director I would probably use it, too.
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Re: 3d loses USAT sanctioning [ In reply to ]
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I've raced 3 races put on by 3d and thought the only problem was a lack of volunteers, but that cannot be considered the rd's fault. Kind of ironic is that the most poorly run race i've competed in was in AZ but wasn't put on by 3d, but Tucson Racing (Collegiate Nats, 2003). There was nobody on the course, traffic was not blocked on a highway with a speed limit of 65 i believe and a shoulder that consisted of being 2/3 rumble strip and 1/3 rideable. The race was terrible, organizationally and course wise. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: 3 Disciplines USAT de-sanctioning: Comments? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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I have raced 2 events put on by 3D (Sea Horse and Stoney Creek) and have no complaints. I have no idea what is going on behind the scenes but I am troubled to hear about the license fee problem if in fact it exists. Both races have been very positive for me even though I am still a newbie to Tri's and don't have much to compare them to.

I felt the swims had plenty of lifeguards, don't know much about the distances but they seemed right. The bike courses were well marshalled, (really not that hard at Stoney Creek). The runs had plenty of water and gatorade. Also there were a lot of smiling faces everywhere I went.

My 2 cents

jaretj
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Re: 3d loses USAT sanctioning [KalamazooTri] [ In reply to ]
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"I've raced 3 races put on by 3d and thought the only problem was a lack of volunteers, but that cannot be considered the rd's fault."

Take it from a veteran race organizer - there are two cornerstones of a successful event. One is planning, the other is personnel. If you attend to both tasks, your event is likely to run smoothly. Miss on either one, however, and the risks for significant problems go up markedly.

Either or both can suffer if the RD bites off more than his organization can chew. I suspect that is the trouble for 3d. Kenny and Annemarie ARE the organization . . . and when they try, as they do here in Michigan, to put on an event each week, planning and recruitment may suffer. It's not that they don't plan and recruit. It's just that if something goes wrong at the last minute (which is practically a given in this business), there often isn't enough time to recover. And that is especially so if you haven't been able to put in the time needed to form solid local relationships.

One more observation. If it isn't the RD's job to recruit, whose job IS it?

Lew

Lew
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Re: 3d loses USAT sanctioning [Lew] [ In reply to ]
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The picture that is emerging here is a complex one. I think there are several perspectives worth considering. To me, they include the folowing:

1. The issue(s) between USAT and 3 Disciplines. This may include financial matters that are the private affairs of 3 Disciplines and USAT. My opinion is they are not matters to be aired in public. However, they do affect each of the participants who have purchased, but not received licenses at 3 Disciplines event.

2. The issues of safety at 3 Disciplines events. The small sampling of participants in 3 Disciplines events that have responded here are mixed. Some report good expereinces with 3 Disciplines, some report disappointment. I contrast this with another race management company with whom we already have a relationship. They sponsor 4-5 major local multisport events. We have not received a SINGLE complaint about any of their events, and have- in fact recieved many compliments. I hold them as the Gold Standard.

As I get ready to try to write responsibly about this issue, the first writing I have done in a long time, I am wary of turning this into a "witch hunt". I think there ARE some problems here. I would like to hear from 3 Disciplines Racing themselves. In a way, I am surprised I haven't already. It is worth keeping in mind that this may be a complex issue.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: 3 Disciplines USAT de-sanctioning: Comments? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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First off prior to reading this thread I had already decided to never race another 3 Disciplines race again.

I raced the Paul Bunyan Challenge 1/2 IM this past August and was very disappointed with how poorly the race was run. For an organization that claims they know what they are doing the race seemed to be organized by a rookie. I wouldn't be harsh on a first timer. But 3 Disciplines puts on A LOT of races and gets a lot of feedback from athletes and should now how to put on a race by now.

I'd rather have 1 great race in Michigan rather than 20 weak, and poorly run races.

Besides the poorly setup transition area, the terrible choice of roads and the poor education of volunteers; the worst part of the weekend doesn't come from me. The worst part comes from my wife.

She's been to a lot of races and is not afraid to help out or speak up. Twice at Paul Bunyan she did speak up and was told (by Kenny the RD) NOT to talk to the volunteers. Fine. However both cases involved athlete safety. She was determined to bust Kenny's chops until safety issues were handled.

The first had to do with the swim buoys and the 2nd had to do with the entrance into the T2. Kenny did nothing for the buoys and just let them float out of place so the swim finish was comical. (Which buouy to we go around?) Kenny did figure out the entrance into T2 (where do we go?) issue but he's an experienced RD. It shouldn't of taken spectators to get all over him to fix it.

If I'm spending over $100 to race athlete safety has to be a top priority. If I don't feel safe I don't want to race but if my wife or any spectator doesn't feel safe for me that's even scarier.

Like I said. I have already decided to put my money somewhere else.

Dan

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