Check the "IMAZ?" thread for the 3D take on the situation- annmarie is part of the 3D team, although it may have been Kenny Krell posting.

Ken

According to 3D's wesite, yes

In general, I think there's more than enough demand to support all the races anyone wants to put on, but not the same distance in the same town 1 week apart.

How is it an IMNA race if a different company is putting it on? You shouldn't spread rumors if it isn't true. IMNA is supposed to be putting on a Full IM in the spring, not a half in the fall.



...but it's a dry heat...

I think there must be some affiliation between the RedRock Half and Ironman NA. The RedRock race is supposed to have qualifier slots - perhaps not for Hawaii, but for other Ironmans.

That's a big difference from IMNA putting the race.





...but it's a dry heat...

I apologize, I have been out of the loop-

Can you guys give me the Readers Digest, PDB version on what is going on here from the beginning?

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

chill out dude...I am not spreading rumors here. it's been hashed and rehashed.
just slightly inacurrate. They are putting on a race, with IMNZ slots...so they are in the good grace of IMNA...

that IMNA is doing all they can to be a monopoly is a surprise to you???

"Ironman NA determined to attack inside Arizona"

Oops....maybe I've been spending too much time in the political threads.

The deal is this......3D put on a Half Ironman event at Tempe Town Lake last year, in the first week of November. I thought it was a very well-run event.

3D had the event scheduled to take place again this year, on November 7, 2004.

RedRock Triathlon is a newer promoter in Arizona, and put on an 8-race "Splash-n-Dash" Aquathlon series this spring - which I heard is very well-run.

RedRock recently announced that they are putting on a Half Ironman event on October 31, 2004 - one week before the scheduled 3D event. The RedRock Half will offer slots for some Ironman event(s). Since Ironman is rumored to be putting on Ironman Arizona in 4/2005, perhaps this race is to be a dry run at the venue?

Soma Cafe, which was the title sponsor of 3D's Half last year, is to be the title sponsor of the RedRock Half this year.


AND.....3D just announced that their half is now cancelled.

Thank you Cholla.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Cholla,

Do you see a problem with this at all? I know Jeff, the owner of Red Rock, so this may be a little biased, but I think that what he is doing is great. He is a business owner and this is his lifeline. He supports triathlon and is bringing a race to Arizona that, let's face it, only a handful of cities get such an event. I know personally that he is living and breathing for this triathlon, and he is based right here in AZ. I am sure that yes, we could have two 1/2 IM's here in the Valley at different times and they both could do well, but if you are a young business owner and have the chance to jump on with IMNA, wouldn't you do it? I would in a second. I realize that triathlon is different for us but is it any different when it is how you put food on the table? Just my .02 but I would like other people's opinion since I am close to Jeff. Personally I think it is great for the Valley (Tempe especially) and great for triathletes as a whole.

On the one hand, I don't blame Jeff - as you said, it's a huge opportunity. And, as a business owner, I might have made the same decision. On the other hand, although the 3D race was perhaps the most desirable weekend, couldn't other dates have worked? Or perhaps a week or two sooner or later might not matter anyway. And didn't Jeff work with Kenny last year on the Soma Half? I'm not looking to cast stones, but if that's true, it doesn't look good. And I also wonder....why the same title sponsor?

This year's race calendar in Arizona is busier than ever - which is awesome - but it's pretty clear that similar races scheduled too close together hurt each other. IMHO, the two Olympic races in Tempe in May both suffered reduced turnout - and that probably has something to do with athletes choosing one vs. another. Perhaps the proximity of those two races was a factor in the low turnout at the Dannon sprint Tri at Lake Pleasant, because the calendar was so busy in May.

Again, I am not placing blame with anyone - but we have now gained a Half Ironman, perhaps with higher stature or prestige, but also lost another Half and taken a step toward pushing a race director out of our community. The former may be a plus for the local triathlon community, but is the latter?

Some very good points. Personally, and this is before I met Jeff, I have not had much luck with 3D's races. With the swim being so long last year at Tempe combined with not being able to get splits, and the run being so short last year at the Half, and then the swim being long again this year, I have not enjoyed myself that much. This is personally of course because I know a lot of people do enjoy their races. I agree that losing a racing company here in the Valley is not good, but maybe it opens the door for someone here in the Valley to do more races or even start doing races. I don't know, I am really up in the air. I guess a bad race is better than no race. I did not hear about the turnout at Lake Pleasant. That is a shame because I had an absolute blast at that race last year.

Yes, Jeff did work with Kenny last year. Maybe he left because he knew he could do things better? I know that it is tough fielding questions about why something went wrong when you do not have the control to change it. Jeff took the bull by the horns because he knew that he could provide a quality product here in AZ. I admire him for that and I will support him. I am pretty positive that Soma was not happy with the event last year but they were very happy with Jeff, who was responsible for getting sponsorship for the race. They signed a 10 year contract with the Half, so it is nice to know that the Half is something that people are planning on doing in the future. It is nice to have a race here that you can train for every year.

I think that with the ITU race here, the Half in October and the full in April, there are going to be some quality events in the Valley. There is definitely enough to go around so hopefully we will get some other races here and space them out and we can all have fun. Your last question may be answered only with time. I know that I am excited as of right now though.

first let me say that i have no strong feelings for red rock or 3d--i haven't had major problems with any of their races. i foresee 3d getting pushed out of the tempe/phoenix market within the next couple years and i think the consumers will suffer. less options is not a good thing. and the real problem, in my opinion, is that it's completely unnecessary. with the weather in phoenix, you can put on an event nearly any time of year. until there is a major event each month, there is no reason for this kind of cutthroat, head to head competition. i just want races and as long as an rd doesn't compromise my safety, i don't care who puts them on. less rd's will be mean less races, which is not a good situation.

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f/k/a mclamb6

I definitely agree with less races is not a good thing. But once again, do you think that Jeff had many options as to when to hold the event? IMNA works a schedule and if they say that this is when you are going to hold this race, that is when you should hold it. With Kona at the beginning of October and IMFL in November, I think his hands were pretty tied as far as when to hold it. Tempe has agreed to donate money to a center stage triathlon like this and it was delivered. I hope we have a lot of choices coming up as far as races to do. I believe that there is a lot of room for RD's that want to do well and I hope that they take advantage of it. I would love to either be racing or volunteering every other weekend. Like I said, a bad race is better than no race and I am surprised that 3D actually dropped their race. I knew of a lot of people that were planning on doing it because the 31st was not good for them and the fact that they wanted to do a relay with friends. I probably would have raced the 31st and volunteered the 3D race. I really have mixed feelings. Happy for us getting a large event, sad that it may be driving another RD out of the area.

I'd probably blame Tempe or IMNA before Jeff. Tempe should have worked a better solution than allowing both events a week apart. Although, I'm sure they view it as the more people they can draw into the area, the better. Sort of a short term focus though. IMNA selected a new RD over an established race, don't know their reasoning.

I'd say Jeff should send Kenny a couple of cases of Milwaukee's finest and the whole thing is water under the bridge. Hats off to 3D for bowing out, which will make the Soma event much stronger.

I agree that Tempe is trying to do whatever they can with the stadium leaving in the near future. ASU is not successful enough to draw large crowds and with no more AZ Cardinals, Fiesta Bowl and Super Bowl, they are out of a lot of money. Will be interesting to see what else they try to bring in!!

I believe that the main reason Jeff parted ways with Kenny/3D was because Kenny got de-sanctioned by USAT. Once that happened it seemed like Jeff realized he would never have a chance to put on a big event like an IMNA half or full. There's no way IMNA would get involved with a RD that has been de-sanctioned by USAT. I remember that when USAT de-sanctioned 3D it had the news article announcing that posted on the homepage of their website for something like 2-3 weeks. That seemed excessive and indicated to me a tremendous amount of animosity towards 3D. So I believe that whole situation forced Jeff to strike out on his own. There were probably other factors such as 3D's track record of screwups and sloppiness. I don't know what Kenny did to get de-sanctioned by USAT but that was his death knell for ever getting access to a IMNA event. Kenny dug his own grave when he got de-sanctioned. I'm sure Kenny would say he didn't do anything wrong and USAT was being unfair, but if you're a RD you do not under any circumstances allow yourself to be de-sanctioned.

Although I would love to see big half's in back to back months I don't think there is enough of a market for both events to thrive. Unfortunately one of them had to go and IMNA is the 800lb gorilla. I would imagine that Tempe prefers to have a single top-notch event than 2 second tier events and participants divided betwen the 2. To have a half in the Phoenix area in the fall you really only have October and November to work with. In order to have a chance at attracting some of the top pros you have to put the event at least 2 weeks after Kona. So that shrinks the window of time even more. There was no way around having a conflict in the dates between the 2 races as far as I can see and it was inevitable that only 1 race would survive.

Excellent point(s). Jeff is definitely a 'go-getter' and I wish him all the best. If you reserved your spot, registration opened today!!!

ALL of this information that you just spouted is a baseless pile of shit and a ridiculously uneducated assumption. Which, I might add, turns everything into a HUGE pile of shit.

Shame on you.

It's sad that all of this is happening and to twist it around without facts, makes it even sadder for all--race directors and participants alike.

Stop spouting until you know the facts.

[reply]
ALL of this information that you just spouted is a baseless pile of shit and a ridiculously uneducated assumption. Which, I might add, turns everything into a HUGE pile of shit.

Shame on you.

It's sad that all of this is happening and to twist it around without facts, makes it even sadder for all--race directors and participants alike.

Stop spouting until you know the facts. [/reply]

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Please tell me what I said that is not true. Did 3D not get de-sanctioned by USAT? Did USAT not post that announcement on their homepage for several weeks? Does anyone think IMNA would ever get involved with a RD who has been de-sanctioned? The rest of my post was my own speculation about why Jeff and Kenny parted ways. I think any rational person who was in the same situation as Jeff would have done the same thing given the facts as stated. Perhaps you would have done things differently. But again, please tell me what is incorrect about my previous post.

USAT told 3 Disciplines that there were safety concerns with his races. They never explained what those concerns were. They insisted on a number of unprecedented, and expensive conditions for 3D to still be sanctioned. Kenny opted to not saction with USAT. Rumor has it that USAT threatened to 'de-sanction' Jeff's splash and dash series, if he continued to work with 3D

So, what the heck is the point in posting rumors and speculations? What good does it do ANYone? It creates a bigger mess, dontcha think?

Save for the fact that it might make you feel important--it only hurts the future of triathlon and it's growth in your community.

I did not hear that rumor about Jeff and USAT/Splash n Dash. Beta, just conversation. If there was not rumor/opinion, this site would not exist.

Yes, I understand that it may be viewed as 'just conversation' but sometimes, without realizing it, the nature of the conversation can hurt business, reputations and years of hard work all because of one simple statement that becomes misconstrued. My suggestion would be to preface a statement with the humble "in my opinion" or something along those lines.


Facts mixed with opinon: Knowing both Kenny and Jeff personally and observing how they operate as business people, I know that the former has built and continues to build his business with honesty and years of experience as an athlete. The latter is questionable in his business practices in that it's common knowledge to some directly involved that he began his race career with a motive--that motive being to get ahead while seeming to help 3d. Not a good move in building your reputation and for this type of business where it shouldn't have to be dog eat dog or every man for himself. What have we created? This doesn't work but will definitely create a whole boatload of success for a future as a used car salesperson.

My opinion is that this race community should be working together and striving to bring the sport to more communities and not backstabbing your allies. You might need them someday!