Disc.

My 2¢: Buy a disc.

Here's my reasoning. Ultimately a disc is faster in back than anything else in back. So, if your destination is fastest equipment, than anything else you by for the back is a throw-away. So, start with the least of the throw-away options. Then, eventually sell the set of 303 wheels to fund the deeper front.

But... the curveball option. If you have budget for a Zipp Super 9 disc, then you have budget for a full set of HED Jet 9/disc disc brake wheels. These are likely faster than the Zipps and the same net cost as just a Zipp rear disc. If you are budget constrained, then HED is the clear performance leader. I would only consider Enve or Zipp if I had unlimited budget and really loved the brand.

So, the 808s might actually be faster in the tunnel, but out on the road the stability the disc brings would negate that advantage. If you have any doubts about handling then the Disc is the way to go. Better yet, sell the 303s and get a disc and deep front combo from your preferred manufacturer.

---

My YouTubes

I should just delete my response as this is the way to go.

---

My YouTubes

Disc. 303 front doesn't give up much to an 808 at low yaw (single digit seconds over 40k) and if it's windy enough for that number to grow I, personally, would prefer to run the 303 for stability reasons.

Haha, it is a race to the Post button.

So far, the votes are:
4 to buy a disc
2 to ditch the Zipp 303 set
2 to buy something other than Zipp or Enve

I don't have that exact comparison, but in 2014 when I went to A2 I compared a damn fast/good Stinger 6 (albeit with crappy tire) to my current front. This was just for shits and giggles as I knew I wouldn't stay so shallow (I had previously been running a Jet9). The difference at low was much greater than at high. .202 vs .198 at 0º and 186 vs 185 at 10º.

ETA: Clarifying that point there. The 90 was faster at 0º than the 60 and not that much faster at 10º. Also, for complete clarity, the Stinger had a handmade tubular schwalbe size 22 and the Bonty had a 20c SS which measured north of 22 on the 17 internal rim.

---

My YouTubes

Agreed. Disc with a 303 front is likely to be the faster combo. Won't look as cool as an 808 front, but unless your a big guy and good bike handler, the 808 is a lot of wheel.

I'd echo the buy HEDs option. I'd go with a Jet 60/disc vs the 90. You're not losing that much and while the jet 90 is pretty good in crosswinds, the 60 will handle a bit better

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

The real beauty in this setup is that it negates the negative cost of selling the zipps. If OP were to go the HED route, and sell the 303s to someone, someone like me, for even $100, he comes out ahead!

Do they make covers for disc wheels? If so save a ton of cash and just buy a wheel cover for the rear.

---

Let food be thy medicine...

I didn’t know HEDs are faster than Zipp. I use Zipp wheels and somehow I thought they are the fastest. I will definitely consider HED for next purchase. I own tubulars so I eventually want to buy clinchers.

Sadly, the 303s will not be for sale as they are too useful. With road tires on Aspero to make it decent road bike, bigger tires for gravel race, as a front wheel on tri bike on the really windy day.

Has anyone tried out deep front and rear v shallower front and disc rear in wind tunnel or on track? Envy’s claim that someone as slow as me would not benefit from a disc seems strange and want to make sure I would not be better off skipping the disc and getting a set of deeper wheels. I had always thought that a 60mm front and disc rear would be optimal most of the time. ENVE seems to claim otherwise.

[quote wtboone

Has anyone tried out deep front and rear v shallower front and disc rear in wind tunnel or on track? Envy’s claim that someone as slow as me would not benefit from a disc seems strange and want to make sure I would not be better off skipping the disc and getting a set of deeper wheels. I had always thought that a 60mm front and disc rear would be optimal most of the time. ENVE seems to claim otherwise.[/quote]
Now that Enve has a disc I thought they changed their claims?

I personally take that Enve data with a grain of salt. I've seen maybe 2 tests where a disc lost to a deep back wheel on someone.

It's like going to play roulette except that you've got 98 spots that say disc wheel and 2 that say deep rear wheel. What are the odds that the deep rear wheel is actually faster for you?

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

That was Enve's marketing message before they had a disc product. They probably market differently today. There is a long thread here somewhere when they initially launched that marketing campaign.

I think everyone is missing the forest here. The focus on whether a deep rear is faster or slower than a disc is not the low hanging fruit here. It's the shallow front vs a deep front. Front wheel is going to do more for you than a disc over a deep rear. And a disc will help stabilize that deep front. Now if your pucker factor is low then you definitely don't want to do that Deep/Deep.


ETA: Missed that you said the below and if one really feels they can't learn to ride a deep front, then the 60 is a good compromise, as my data shows. 😉

---

My YouTubes

If we’re voting, skip zipp or enve and buy more wheels that accommodate all conditions.

Maurice

Don't compromise on speed by trying to buy the most expensive kit possible and skimping on neglecting part of the equation.

You'd be light years faster on a deep front and disc rear of a more affordable and reputable brand than buying Enve's or Zipps.

Nothing wrong with Enve's or Zipps, just that you claim you can't do everything.

My $0.02.

Also, the more shielded the rear wheel is by a fancier fairing framed bike........the less important having a super expensive rear disc is. I bet on that bike you could run an 11spd flat Renn disc and be 99.5% as fast as the most expensive disc you could buy.

Where would FLO 60/disc fall for aerodynamics compared to Zipp and HED?

I have FLO wheels. Not sure if the extra money to sell the FLOs and buy HED is worth it

I'm totally not drinking the Kool-aid on hating on Flo after that one very big unpopular topic.........but, I was cruising Ebay and the classifieds for things and in the pictures the gaps for the spokes in the rim really did stick out like a turd in a punch bowl.

I've got some 2012 or so vintage Giant SLR aero wheels that are the fairing type. The spoke entry on those is a zillion times more polished and well done than the modern Flos.

It's silly, but that kind of bothered me a bit when digging around.

Hambini?

---

Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

Careful. If you say his name 3 times you summon him.
But for real, I'm pretty sure that guy googles himself every 6 minutes to talk shit about anyone who questions his terrible and terribly fake content.

---

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors