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2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast?
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Hi ST,

I am currently on a 2020 P5D with a set of Enve 5.6s.

What could be faster among the 2021 new stuff? I know that both the P5D and the Speedconcept used to test very fast but maybe there is a game changer (or a new consensus on what’s actually testing fast).

Same question for the wheels, with that same range of rim depth (50-60mm).

Thanks!

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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [captainolek] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say you're all set. Keep what you got and train harder. Spend money on a training get away.
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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [captainolek] [ In reply to ]
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captainolek wrote:
Hi ST,

I am currently on a 2020 P5D with a set of Enve 5.6s.

What could be faster among the 2021 new stuff? I know that both the P5D and the Speedconcept used to test very fast but maybe there is a game changer (or a new consensus on what’s actually testing fast).

Same question for the wheels, with that same range of rim depth (50-60mm).

Thanks!

If you like pissing money away pull the trigger on the latest and greatest 2021 bikes. You're gaining absolutely nothing. Unless there is a specific issue with what you're riding I'm not sure I see why you would need a new bike annually.
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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [WFPB Athlete] [ In reply to ]
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It’s tough to know the answer to this question. All anybody writes about around here is gravel (half pink).
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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [captainolek] [ In reply to ]
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Nothing new under the sun. No low-hanging aero fruit left to be picked IMO. The last frontiers for these bikes are integration, wrenchability, and comfort. Some nice efforts have been made on the first two but nobody has tackled the third in earnest.
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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [captainolek] [ In reply to ]
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What don’t you like about the P5D? Just curious.
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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [captainolek] [ In reply to ]
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About the only thing I have noticed a move to slightly shallower wheels. Your 5.6s probably would have been 6.7s a couple years ago. Still hard to argue that deep front and disc won’t be faster. AeroCoach. Probably has the max setup with a 100mm front and disc. Ski suit material is the only other area where things still seem to be evolving
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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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i'm riding my road rocket but am giving up 20 maybe 30 seconds in a flat olympic distance race

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [captainolek] [ In reply to ]
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I lot of the development this year has gone into gear for the Olympics that may never happen. This is typical for an Olympic year with the big bike brands focusing in cross country mountain and track bikes. The main cross-over will be with skin suits and helmets from the track but that stuff is so person specific there won't be a clear consensus.

In terms of wheels I don't see much progress until we see someone develop a fully optimized tubeless wheel and tire combo. Previously Zipp played around with this on tubs and clinchers and mavic has had its own system too but neither company produced a purpose built TT tire. Someone needs to build an ultra low rolling resistant tire with a carcass optimized for a specific rim and integrate into the tire a layer that works with sealant to provide puncture protection.
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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [captainolek] [ In reply to ]
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You dramatically over-estimate the pace and degree of improvements in aerodynamics, if you think it's likely you can use it to credibly justify an annual bike or wheel replacement with a realistic promise of more speed.
The big revolution in cycling aerodynamics came when the industry actually started considering that it was relevant, and started applying straightforward principles to various elements: position, bike frame, wheels, clothing, helmet. I'd suggest that not only won't there be any performance "game changers" in 2021, but there may never be further performance "game changers" unless they are the result of rule changes. I mean you can certainly change the game by allowing faired recumbents, but as things stand...... not so much!
I'm not saying nothing will improve, just that the rate of change and degree by which they improve are likely to be modest. This is already the case and the rate of improvement will likely continue to slow.
Gradual, barely noticeable, incremental improvements are likely to continue in all areas but significant changes are IMO unlikely to be aerodynamics based, unless it's refinement of position and component interactions for individual configurations and users. (Customised aerobars, more accurate and applicable testing or monitoring of aerodynamics , and the like). Has anyone considered a tri suit that actually helps you stay in your optimum position? That could be a "game changer". Not so tweaks to frame tube or wheel rim profiles.
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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [littlefoot] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks - that's an option indeed, and training harder is the goal for sure ;-)

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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
What don’t you like about the P5D? Just curious.

Well tbh, nothing. Everything works well and I'm happy with my position. However, should there be new gear that works for me too and that test faster, I'd be interested hence my question.

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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [WFPB Athlete] [ In reply to ]
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WFPB Athlete wrote:
captainolek wrote:
Hi ST,

I am currently on a 2020 P5D with a set of Enve 5.6s.

What could be faster among the 2021 new stuff? I know that both the P5D and the Speedconcept used to test very fast but maybe there is a game changer (or a new consensus on what’s actually testing fast).

Same question for the wheels, with that same range of rim depth (50-60mm).

Thanks!


If you like pissing money away pull the trigger on the latest and greatest 2021 bikes. You're gaining absolutely nothing. Unless there is a specific issue with what you're riding I'm not sure I see why you would need a new bike annually.

Oh no the goal is not to "piss money away". I however consider from past experience, at least for road bikes on the French market, that the best way to reduce the amount of money you loose is to either switch every 1/2 year or keep bikes until they're dead. That way the ratio "lost money vs. mileage" is optimised. But i'm happy to hear your views on this, should they be different (or maybe this does not apply to the US bike market?)

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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:
About the only thing I have noticed a move to slightly shallower wheels. Your 5.6s probably would have been 6.7s a couple years ago. Still hard to argue that deep front and disc won’t be faster. AeroCoach. Probably has the max setup with a 100mm front and disc. Ski suit material is the only other area where things still seem to be evolving

Yeah deep front + disc may be a good upgrade but that's dependent on the courses next season and that is still uncertain for obvious reasons.

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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
You dramatically over-estimate the pace and degree of improvements in aerodynamics, if you think it's likely you can use it to credibly justify an annual bike or wheel replacement with a realistic promise of more speed.
The big revolution in cycling aerodynamics came when the industry actually started considering that it was relevant, and started applying straightforward principles to various elements: position, bike frame, wheels, clothing, helmet. I'd suggest that not only won't there be any performance "game changers" in 2021, but there may never be further performance "game changers" unless they are the result of rule changes. I mean you can certainly change the game by allowing faired recumbents, but as things stand...... not so much!
I'm not saying nothing will improve, just that the rate of change and degree by which they improve are likely to be modest. This is already the case and the rate of improvement will likely continue to slow.
Gradual, barely noticeable, incremental improvements are likely to continue in all areas but significant changes are IMO unlikely to be aerodynamics based, unless it's refinement of position and component interactions for individual configurations and users. (Customised aerobars, more accurate and applicable testing or monitoring of aerodynamics , and the like). Has anyone considered a tri suit that actually helps you stay in your optimum position? That could be a "game changer". Not so tweaks to frame tube or wheel rim profiles.

I don't know how revolutionary it will be, but I heard (and read somewhere on ST too from user TRIPRO) that a new bike should be announced/released in Q4. Maybe if you read this Jeroen and if timing allows for it, you could disclose a bit more?

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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [captainolek] [ In reply to ]
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Cam Wurf could smoke you on a beach cruiser.

The engine is what really counts once you've clearly saved enough in drag.

Spend your money on nutrition, a coach, a phys therapist, a masseuse, and a good mattress if you have that kinda money to throw around year over year.
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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [TruffleShuffle] [ In reply to ]
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If he's looking for a solution to a non-existent problem, just so he can spend money; best to just give it away!

It's insanity, and it's immoral in my book.

Edit: While I do believe the above to be so. It perhaps reflects a bit too harshly on the OP.
Perhaps he's assuming a new bike would only be released f it were significantly faster than what came before. So maybe I should just say that it's unwise to be this enthusiastic to be convinced you need more stuff. It also seems right to me, that we set an appreciable bar of improvement below which it is not right to spend money and resources recklessly and it's very unlikely I'd ever satisfy that bar in my own book, when replacing a bike within 1 year.
Last edited by: Ai_1: Sep 3, 20 11:54
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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [captainolek] [ In reply to ]
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captainolek wrote:
WFPB Athlete wrote:
captainolek wrote:
Hi ST,

I am currently on a 2020 P5D with a set of Enve 5.6s.

What could be faster among the 2021 new stuff? I know that both the P5D and the Speedconcept used to test very fast but maybe there is a game changer (or a new consensus on what’s actually testing fast).

Same question for the wheels, with that same range of rim depth (50-60mm).

Thanks!


Buying a new bike every 1/2 doesn't produce any net benefit. Do you buy a new bike every time you do an FTP test?

You already have great equipment. Time to sack up and ride it hard.

If you like pissing money away pull the trigger on the latest and greatest 2021 bikes. You're gaining absolutely nothing. Unless there is a specific issue with what you're riding I'm not sure I see why you would need a new bike annually.

Oh no the goal is not to "piss money away". I however consider from past experience, at least for road bikes on the French market, that the best way to reduce the amount of money you loose is to either switch every 1/2 year or keep bikes until they're dead. That way the ratio "lost money vs. mileage" is optimised. But i'm happy to hear your views on this, should they be different (or maybe this does not apply to the US bike market?)
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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [captainolek] [ In reply to ]
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Not tt, but I like how the tide turned on the tour de france bikes and how apart from the disc brakes they are looking more minimal again

Skinny forks
Zero offset seatmast
27,2mm seat posts
Short foils
640gram frames
Linear tubes not droopy cutouts

Cannondale and cube headed this way for ty last year, would be cool to see more minimal 1x weight weenie aero tt bikes
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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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Look at the Brit's Hope/Lotus Olympic track bike (HB.T) design with 3D Printed Titanium parts and the front fork resembling the Specialized Shiv's. I would say the design of the Shiv with the fin in the back and front fork is/was innovative with some aero gains over the prior model. As for the OP's P5D, why not the PX which if its all about aero gains, why the P5D over the PX when the later has the slight aero advantage? But if interested the Hope/Lotus frame is available to purchase due to UCI rules, so put in an order and spend that cash. I do agree that there will be some slight gains in wheel production and the Hope/Lotus as a single, monocoque disc, rather than a two piece disc, has its advantages, but I doubt we will see much else of anything new until late 2021.
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Re: 2021 bikes and wheels - what’s fast? [captainolek] [ In reply to ]
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captainolek wrote:
Hi ST,

I am currently on a 2020 P5D with a set of Enve 5.6s.

What could be faster among the 2021 new stuff? I know that both the P5D and the Speedconcept used to test very fast but maybe there is a game changer (or a new consensus on what’s actually testing fast).

Same question for the wheels, with that same range of rim depth (50-60mm).

Thanks!


Hi A.

Wait for just a few more weeks and a new and very special new tri bike will be launched and shown.
Just finished testing against, among others, the P5dusc with remarkable results;)

New brand so nothing to see so far online.

Best,

Jeroen

Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands
Last edited by: TRIPRO: Sep 3, 20 13:38
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