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2020 felt IA / Advanced
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I just noted that Felt quietly updated the first of the felt IAx line. Just cosmetics with a few component changes.

https://feltbicycles.com/...riant=22709582430326
Vs
https://feltbicycles.com/...riant=18363191885942

Paint aside, i quickly noted a bayonet 3.1 front end. Anyone aware of the differences vs the old 3?

I see the upturned brake hoods as noted below, and of course the new shape (longer) extensions (a good change as the old ones were noted to be a bit short for the larger frame sizes).

They are promoting the advanced/textreme carbon in the frame as new for this year... but i am pretty sure the ia16 had the same frame last year. Mind you, the new bike is a claimed 1.3lbs lighter than the 2019 ia16. I see a more pure 105 groupset... but i wonder where the rest comes from.
Last edited by: Rocket_racing: Jul 7, 19 17:29
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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Eww. Upturned brake hoods. Why does any bar manufacturer still make those?

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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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realbdeal wrote:
Eww. Upturned brake hoods. Why does any bar manufacturer still make those?

Bad for aero, but good for descending. I presume it is a novice-friendly choice.
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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realbdeal wrote:
Eww. Upturned brake hoods. Why does any bar manufacturer still make those?


Especially when the previous version had those great felt grips that have a bump that mimic some of the effect of upturned ends.
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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They have now added the IA / Advanced / Ultegra: https://feltbicycles.com/...dvanced-ultegra-2020

Force eTap: https://feltbicycles.com/...riant=29424194945142
Last edited by: jpay: Jul 30, 19 9:56
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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I'll be very interested to see the responses to Felt's 2020 Tri lineup both in regards to graphics and specs at certain price points. From what I can tell, the IA10 is gone, replaced at that price point by a mechanical Ultegra with the integrated bayonet and disc brakes. In other words a mechanical Ultegra IA3 at $5K. Last year, this gets you a Di2 equipped, more adjustable, IA10 for essentially the same price.

I won't post anything that hasn't been announced, but I think you could surmise that what was the Ultegra Di2 IA3 last year will not likely be priced at $5800. I've found most manufacturers who've gone above the $6k price point for Ultegra Di2 find that sales drop dramatically. Two manufacturers tried it briefly last year, realized the mistake, and quickly adjusted pricing. The IA3 was a tremendous success for them last year, and I think that may have led them to believe they could raise that price for 2020. Maybe they can, maybe it's a mistake...we'll see. Every manufacturer needs to realize they're competing with Canyon (and Premier) at the $5K+ price point. Would you rather have a Di2 equipped bike (that's more adjustable) with a decent set of race wheels, or mechanical Ultegra with the integrated front end? The clients who come in for Pre-Purchase Fits at ERO come in at 4 very distinct price points: entry-level at $3K, mid-level at $5k expecting Di2, mid-high at $8K wanting better spec and wheels than the lower level, and the price is no object folks who want the best of everything. You can push those prices a bit, but there's a breaking point the consumer won't pass. Every client who comes in inquires about Canyon. Every one. What is your sales pitch to choose your brand over theirs? What do you offer that they don't? That's a question every manufacturer better be prepared to answer, and it needs to be compelling.

I'm not saying Felt is making a mistake. For all I know, they'll crush it in 2020 because they make kick-ass tri bikes. I just worry the consumer will balk at the price vs spec. Oh, and I'll be really interested in what people think about the graphics on these bikes.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Those graphics are terrible. I always feel like you are taking a risk with graphics like those, it appeals to a few but most like a basic paint scheme in my opinion. To your point on Canyon, if they could ever keep them in stock here in the states I think you would see so many more of them but they can't seem to figure out supply and demand it seems.
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Also interesting - they initially posted the Force eTap build at $6500 (which I thought was really compelling), but it went up to $8k in the last day or two. Must have been an error on their end? I assume the Di2 version I've seen floating around will slot somewhere in between. Like you mentioned, given the success of the IA3, seems like a mistake to not have something in that mid-range.
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:
I'll be very interested to see the responses to Felt's 2020 Tri lineup both in regards to graphics and specs at certain price points. From what I can tell, the IA10 is gone, replaced at that price point by a mechanical Ultegra with the integrated bayonet and disc brakes. In other words a mechanical Ultegra IA3 at $5K. Last year, this gets you a Di2 equipped, more adjustable, IA10 for essentially the same price.

Yeah, I clicked on that link and saw Ultegra Mechanical with 30mm deep alloy training wheels for $5k and thought "that's rather ambitious."

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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I like the bump, but the grips are so thin and uncomfortable. I spend way more time riding on the brake grips than I'd like to (blame the busy/dangerous Seattle area) and they kill my hands. I even added some bar tape but still don't find them comfortable. I wonder if the brake grips on the Ultegra model are going to be the new norm for all Felt brake grips or if they are only for the disc brake models.
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:
Jim@EROsports wrote:
I'll be very interested to see the responses to Felt's 2020 Tri lineup both in regards to graphics and specs at certain price points. From what I can tell, the IA10 is gone, replaced at that price point by a mechanical Ultegra with the integrated bayonet and disc brakes. In other words a mechanical Ultegra IA3 at $5K. Last year, this gets you a Di2 equipped, more adjustable, IA10 for essentially the same price.


Yeah, I clicked on that link and saw Ultegra Mechanical with 30mm deep alloy training wheels for $5k and thought "that's rather ambitious."

I like that they up'd the spec on the "IA16" but kept the price point there. That 105 crankset is a nice upgrade from the FSA that used to adorn that bike as are the brakes. I just feel like the IA10 had another year left in it by doing the same thing. Put an Ultegra crank on it, but keep the price the same. I do see, though, that the IA10 and IA3 likely cannibalize one another so, yes, raise the price on the IA3 a bit but keep the IA10 around. $1k apart in price point would work which buys an integrated front end and disc brakes. Given the Cervelo P5 Disc offers Ultegra Di2 for $8k, perhaps that bike looks like a steal, but I don't think consumers place those two bikes on the same level in their minds, though the spec and performance is likely very similar, so perhaps they should.

That mechanical Ultegra bike is in no-mans land. It's not a bike I can recommend to my clients, so they no longer offer a bike in a key price point for many of the people who come to me seeking advice. I don't care if there's disc brakes or not, if you're priced above a Speed Concept at the same spec level, you're priced too high, especially considering the Trek comes with a better front end, better wheels, and paint options. I mean, seriously, for $5500 you get Di2 and Zipps from Canyon. No contest there.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:

I like that they up'd the spec on the "IA16" but kept the price point there. That 105 crankset is a nice upgrade from the FSA that used to adorn that bike...

I'd counter by saying the Omega crankset had no business being on a $3k+ bike in the first place.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [ClarkWGriz] [ In reply to ]
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Paint:

Not sure i am in love with it. But i reserve most decisions until i see a bike in the flesh. Also, rim, bar tape, saddles can all make or break a bike. The leading edge blue, and white pattern, could make for a slick bike done well.

But the last couple of years imho looked best for the felt ia. The current paint is like the original paint scheme... i am nor 100% sold.
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:
I'll be very interested to see the responses to Felt's 2020 Tri lineup both in regards to graphics and specs at certain price points. From what I can tell, the IA10 is gone, replaced at that price point by a mechanical Ultegra with the integrated bayonet and disc brakes. In other words a mechanical Ultegra IA3 at $5K. Last year, this gets you a Di2 equipped, more adjustable, IA10 for essentially the same price.


I won't post anything that hasn't been announced, but I think you could surmise that what was the Ultegra Di2 IA3 last year will not likely be priced at $5800. I've found most manufacturers who've gone above the $6k price point for Ultegra Di2 find that sales drop dramatically. Two manufacturers tried it briefly last year, realized the mistake, and quickly adjusted pricing. The IA3 was a tremendous success for them last year, and I think that may have led them to believe they could raise that price for 2020. Maybe they can, maybe it's a mistake...we'll see. Every manufacturer needs to realize they're competing with Canyon (and Premier) at the $5K+ price point. Would you rather have a Di2 equipped bike (that's more adjustable) with a decent set of race wheels, or mechanical Ultegra with the integrated front end? The clients who come in for Pre-Purchase Fits at ERO come in at 4 very distinct price points: entry-level at $3K, mid-level at $5k expecting Di2, mid-high at $8K wanting better spec and wheels than the lower level, and the price is no object folks who want the best of everything. You can push those prices a bit, but there's a breaking point the consumer won't pass. Every client who comes in inquires about Canyon. Every one. What is your sales pitch to choose your brand over theirs? What do you offer that they don't? That's a question every manufacturer better be prepared to answer, and it needs to be compelling.

I'm not saying Felt is making a mistake. For all I know, they'll crush it in 2020 because they make kick-ass tri bikes. I just worry the consumer will balk at the price vs spec. Oh, and I'll be really interested in what people think about the graphics on these bikes.



For graphics, the splatter does nothing for me. The White Geo has really grown on me, and I currently think it looks ace. The rim brake blue color is meh.... but my giro shoes would match...

I am guessing pricing reflects demand from last year, and maybe another Kona win.


What is compelling to me is the force etap bike... except for those Sram S-900 aero hydraulic hoods!!! The "aero' label must be a joke, especially with those upturned bars. What I don't understand it that they are listed as Bayonet 3.1 bars, and the force/etap/rim brake builds all list them... but they are upturned in the disc brake bikes only (no upturn in the ultegra mechanical with TRP brakes). IS it the same bar? Kind of a downer on the force build, as why would I buy an aero bike with the least aerodynamic pursuit bars possible? Would love to know what is up there... as I would not want to buy a 8K bike to immediately have to swap pursuit bars and or hydraulic brakes!!! And I am a serious potential buyer.

The site also refers to the Advanced Di2 model, but it is not yet up. I wonder what the delay is. I also wonder if it follows the ultegra mechanical bike and shuns the upturned pursuit bars. That alone would be reason to get it over the force etap bike.

Back to the bars topic, i think for 2020 felt has upgraded fit with the bayonet 3.1 bars, but downgraded the carbon dagger bars in the process. So good for bike fitters, bad for carbon whores like myself. Too bad the dagger bar/stem could not be updated to provide upward tilt of pursuit bars. Maybe the frd or higher spec frames will get an upgrade. It will be interesting to see what felt does.

Regarding high ultegra di2 pricing... i wonder how much of that is due to usa/china tariffs.
Last edited by: Rocket_racing: Aug 14, 19 19:47
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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They're really milking the superlatives in on their product page!

Most aerodynamic, best handling, and winningest all being claimed. I'd love to know the criteria used to determine each of those rankings....
Really milking the Kona wins too, you'd swear Daniela Ryf owed it all to Felt ;)
Not surprising since it seems to be enough to convince lots of people. How many bought Trek 15-20 years ago purely because it was what he rode?
Not saying the IA isn't a good bike, I own one myself, I just cringe when I read that fluff.
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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No doubt. They invest a lot in their sponsored athletes, so no doubt they want to market the results.
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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Rocket_racing wrote:
No doubt. They invest a lot in their sponsored athletes, so no doubt they want to market the results.
Sure. As I said, I just find it cringe worthy when it's used so blatantly and somewhat dishonestly.
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, fastest, best handling, etc is pretty rich!
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:
From what I can tell, the IA10 is gone, replaced at that price point by a mechanical Ultegra with the integrated bayonet and disc brakes. In other words a mechanical Ultegra IA3 at $5K. Last year, this gets you a Di2 equipped, more adjustable, IA10 for essentially the same price.


I think more info has arrived since you wrote this, but the 2020 mechanical ultegra disc comes with a slightly upgraded version of the bar on the IA10, the bayonet 3.1 (same on the 2020 rim brake options). So it is no longer integrated. So at the cost of removing an integrated carbon bar, a more adjustable aluminum option has been added. Call it an upgrade or downgrade. I call it a sidestep. I have a gut feeling the Ultimate level of the 2020 IA will have an updated integrated carbon option. Pure speculation.

Here is the Ultegra Di2.






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I won't post anything that hasn't been announced, but I think you could surmise that what was the Ultegra Di2 IA3 last year will not likely be priced at $5800.

In Canada, and in Europe, the IA advanced / Ultegra Di2 disc / 2020 works out to be 6000USD MSRP (I ordered mine for 5200$). Again, gone is the integrated front end, but added are (entry level) TRP hydraulic disc brakes (vs 2019 IA3 with mechanical disc brakes). The value of such a price increase depends on how useful a buyer finds the old integrated bars, and mechanical vs hrd disc brakes I suppose.

Here is where things get a bit interesting. In the USA site, the IA advanced / Ultegra Di2 disc / 2020 is not yet displayed, but the ultegra mech and force etap are. Both of those are in the range of 800-1000USD more for the SAME BIKE vs the euro or Canadian markets (once you convert currencies). Have a look at the pricing on the various felt international sites. As I noted in another thread, it makes me wonder if tariffs have effected USA pricing for Felt.

It remains to be seen what the USA list price will be for the ultegra Di2 bike, but I am betting it will cost the USA market about 800$ more than the rest of the world. I am betting 6800-7000USD.


Quote:
Oh, and I'll be really interested in what people think about the graphics on these bikes.


The white Geo has really grown on me in the last bit. To the point where I think it is the best looking IA to date, resulting in me ordering an ultegra DI2 (I plan to scoop up current gen dura ace cheap when the update comes out). MSRP for the canadian market was equivalent to 6000$ USD, and I got a solid discount on that from my LBS (5200$ USD).











image source: https://www.riteway-jp.com/...6086/2019/08/_kamata
Last edited by: Rocket_racing: Aug 17, 19 18:34
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, the initial rendering showed the same integrated aero bar as the higher end IA's, but I'm happy to see the Dagger stem with the Bayonet aero bar as it offers much more adjustment possibilities. Felt likely considers it a downgrade, but really it's an upgrade.

The Ultegra Di2 will not be as high as $6800, but it won't be as low as $6000 either. I can see the justification for the price, but I still think an Ultegra Di2 bike would sell much better under $6K. Compare it to a P5 Disc, though, and it looks like a steal. The mechanical Ultegra at $5k is a complete non-starter; I will not recommend it to my clients. The one thing I see Felt not doing this year is offer that one bike that was just too good to pass up for price vs spec. They've always owned the "price point bike" that seemed to offer so much for so little. Canyon owns that space now. QR is probably right there, too.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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For sure. The mech ultegra only appealed to me as a foundation for further upgrades... and at that point i would just get a frame. The ultegra di2 build sold me because it came with decent wheels that i could train on, or even compete with. The reynolds series 1 hubs are an unknown quantity, but i suspect they are entry level down-spec to keep oem prices in check.

The force build was a bit of a disappointment. Force is heavier than ultegra di2, but did have nicer hydraulic brakes (balancing the overall weight). But the cranks are longer in the force build. My lbs confirmed with the distributer that it was not an error. The 51 has a 170mm crank with force, vs 165 for every other ia in that size. Made zero sense.

And for me, the force build was 1500$ cad more than the di2 build. More expensive brakes sure, and trendy new 12 speed wireless, but having to immediately swap the crank was a deal-breaker.
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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Rocket_racing wrote:
The 51 has a 170mm crank with force, vs 165 for every other ia in that size. Made zero sense.

To be fair, this was probably an issue of OEM availability from Sram, not a Felt decision.

While no fan of the graphics, I do think the bike looks way more bad ass with the Dagger stem.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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The bayonet 3.1 and dagger stem look good. They have toned it down and it just looks clean.

Agreed on the reason for the longer force crank. But it was a swing and a miss for me. Although my gravel bike would be perfect for that crank... i would just need a new bb.
Last edited by: Rocket_racing: Aug 18, 19 9:23
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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the best part for me is that their is added reach w/ the dagger stem. The bikes run tall and short w/ the integrated stubby stem from 2019. A lot more people who like to get long and low will be able to do it without swapping parts now
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Re: 2020 felt IA / Advanced [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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Felt just recently added the IA10 frameset back to their website, but they didn’t put an “add to cart” button. I messaged Felt and they said the 2018 IA10 is in stock but they 2019 isn’t yet.

They also said the only difference is the “textreme layer” added to the 2019. But is that suggesting there’s the same claimed 1.3lb weight difference from 2018 to 2019?

ETA: Felt replied and said the weight difference was negligible.
Last edited by: jeremyebrock: Aug 21, 19 15:53
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