These graphs make me lose all faith in Felt's data.

It's a really really awesome looking bike. Will the geometry be the same?

Data is from SD - I just graphed the unformatted text he posted. Which I see he has now removed.

I'm a little dismayed that the mechanical routing is through the DT instead of TT. That aside - I agree with your last two sentences.

What do you do for a living again?

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"One Line Robert"

Let's wait for Felt to release their White Paper.




Oops, sorry about that. Didn't realize that.

Serious question - are all prototype bikes flat black?

They are raw carbon. Why would you paint a prototype frame? The felt decals were probably just applied when someone decided to pull out a camera.

Looks like a great bike. I'll be curious to hear more about it.

The drag data vs the s5 does seem a bit suspicious--hopefully Felt will rigorously defend such claims soon. :)

While I won't be as bold at Nick, extraordinary claims do require extraordinary proof.

We'll see if it can be validated.

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The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important.

-Albert J. Nock

Yes, heaven forbid someone claim to have better drag data than a Cervelo.

I don't care how fast it is..... it's a beautiful bike. And brought to life by a forum member.... pretty cool.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I vote that if some business release a white paper/drag data info that involves the main competitor and totally kills it, they have the right to call it brag data instead of drag data.

I didn't make those graphs that were posted above. I can barely draw a straight line with a ruler.
The new AR has more drag than the Cervelo S5 at -5, 0, 5 degrees of yaw sweep.


Run 3 Felt New AR Bike w 23c Tires / Run 7 Cervelo S-5 w 23c Tires

-5.0 773 / -5.0 765
0.0 790 / 0.0 759
5.0 763 / 5.0 773

0.0 787 / 0.0 755 - retare post sweep.

There will be a complete report on what data we've collected and how and it will be pretty with charts and graphs and photos and diagrams and all sorts of information. We'll add fluff, cool backlit angle shots and desirable photos of raw carbon bikes without artwork that we'll never produce.

Some of the data we've collected that will be presented with procedures is used for comparative analysis. The engineering department has the information needed to do their jobs, now it gets turned over to the marketing and legal departments so it can be presented.

-SD

p.s. Comic Sans added to diagram just how incapable I am at creating a marketable document.

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

I would like to see a shoot-out with: New AR, S5, Venge, Propel. Guess you could throw in the Foil, TMR01, Noah Fast...etc. if you wanted to. But I would want to see the first 4 for sure in any comparison study.

Thanks, look forward to more details when they are ready.

I was just joking around with the typical forum aero police that seem so pro Cervelo around here. Both of these new bikes (AR and IA) look amazing to me, and I think my eyeball wind tunnel is as good as most around here ;)

This such a freaking awesome bike, I'm surprised more people aren't hyped. Any idea of lwer wnd model frame weights Dave? Thanks.

You'll need to wait for the publication to be ready.
http://www.youtube.com/...ed&v=Unmz4eOTdQs

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

I am very excited about this bike. I like that you can switch out the front end to do triathlon and switch it back for road.

You grabbed a copy/paste error showing two different runs with two different set ups. I edited the post because the data I was posting showed the difference between the old AR and new AR with identical component set ups. There was no data showing any competitors with identical set ups posted.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

I would love to see data vs a Foil.

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"Base training is bull shit" - desertdude

Thanks, I've been riding it for a while now and concentrating mostly on its road bike characteristics. If the AR can deliver on the ride quality of our Z bikes and feel light, stiff and agile like our beloved F bikes we'll have a winner. The fact the frame is as aerodynamic as a B2 frame is a bonus. We wanted to make the "next generation" road bike without compromises. I don't want to have to use "...for an aero road bike" after any of the claims. Light, stiff, comfortable, great fit band. Period.

I don't have frame weights for every size of every model with artwork. We've targeted the following for a raw 56cm frame:
MODEL FRAME / FORK
AR FRD 900g / 325g
AR1, AR3R 1050g / 350g
AR2, AR3E 1000g / 350g
AR4, AR5 1100g / 375g

The only raw frame I have to measure is the AR FRD and it was 908g for the frame and 331g for the uncut fork.

As other models come in and I have the time I'll videotape them being put on the scale and load the videos to YouTube as we've done in the past. Weight is probably the most overly emphasized metric in the industry today but we haven't ignored it and it will be documented as accurately and as transparently as we possibly can.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

So this is the data you have most recently posted



I tried to delete the other graphs but no joy


Those curves translate to some quite significant differences on a windy day - even with the draft effect turned on in my road race model.

That's a reputation that is well earned. Cervelo consistently delivers on their claims of being among the fastest and they could claim to be the very fastest in certain conditions.
Their low yaw performance is incredible and only when the Felt DA is compared to other's bikes in UCI legal trim do we compare favorably up in a -20, 0, 20 sweep, in UCI-illegal trim there are better low yaw bikes and better high yaw bikes leaving the DA in between as a jack of all trades (yaws) but master of none.

It is no doubt frustrating to them when photos circulate of a DengFu that looks very similar in a profile shot or silhouette to a P4 and people assume that the two bikes must be aerodynamically similar. Choosing the wrong tube cross sections can easily add 250g of drag while maintaining the same appearance from the side.

I know if we are able to match the Cervelo S5 aerodynamically with our new AR we'll have something very special because in 2013 no other road bike was close.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Most prototypes are left with just a basic matte clear coat over carbon (or alodyne if aluminum) or they are painted 100% gloss white depending on the purpose of the test mule.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era