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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
PS. To the OP, your statement that you won't bet your house on Froome being clean is no less "libelous" than the other statements of suspicion: it implies you are at least somewhat suspicious, even as you yourself states you don't know for sure. So get off of your high horse, or, perhaps, a seatpost set too high before you go accusing.

Seriously? You think that not being absolutely sure somebody is clean is the same as saying they're definitely doping?

There are very few things in life that I'd bet my house on, it doesn't mean that all the things I wouldn't bet on aren't true and it certainly doesn't count as libel. Heck, given the statistical rates of infidelity, I wouldn't even bet my house on my best friend not cheating on his wife, and that's a guy I see every week and have known for 20+ years. Statistical rate of TdF winners doping is a hell of a lot higher than even the infidelity rate, and I've never even met Chris Froome. No way do I bet the house!
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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cartsman wrote:
echappist wrote:

PS. To the OP, your statement that you won't bet your house on Froome being clean is no less "libelous" than the other statements of suspicion: it implies you are at least somewhat suspicious, even as you yourself states you don't know for sure. So get off of your high horse, or, perhaps, a seatpost set too high before you go accusing.


Seriously? You think that not being absolutely sure somebody is clean is the same as saying they're definitely doping?

There are very few things in life that I'd bet my house on, it doesn't mean that all the things I wouldn't bet on aren't true and it certainly doesn't count as libel. Heck, given the statistical rates of infidelity, I wouldn't even bet my house on my best friend not cheating on his wife, and that's a guy I see every week and have known for 20+ years. Statistical rate of TdF winners doping is a hell of a lot higher than even the infidelity rate, and I've never even met Chris Froome. No way do I bet the house!

i'm of the impression that under the libel laws of the GB, i don't think the two would be considered to be different if both are in printed material
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
i'm of the impression that under the libel laws of the GB, i don't think the two would be considered to be different if both are in printed material

There's something called "fair comment" which basically means if a reasonable person could have held the view then it's not libel. Given cycling's past, it would be pretty easy to argue that a reasonable person wouldn't bet their house on a likely TdF winner being clean.

There's also something called "actual malice" which means that either you know what you're saying is false, or you show a reckless regard for the truth. I'm assuming nobody here (or for that matter anybody other than Froome himself) "knows" that he's clean, but you could certainly argue that making statements that he's definitely a doper without any facts or even hearsay to back it up would class as having a reckless regard for the truth.

I'm in the UK and I post to UK websites so I'm hoping my interpretation is at least mostly correct....
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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got it. thanks for the explanation.

i think back to the whole Times of London & Walsh vs Lance thing when i think of UK Libel laws. it just seems that the bar to clear to get the case to trial isn't very high
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Get your point. Nope, I don`t think the worthy souls on the Slowtwitch are a libelous bunch. That is why I posted my rant here, as I thought it might fall on more sympathetic ears. I`m just alarmed at the slant the French press (in general) are putting on all of this. Case in point: Most mainstream media outlets in France gave more media space to speculative pieces on Froome/Sky not being clean than to the news that Tyson Gay and Asafa Powell tested positive, on the day the news broke. I think that`s skewed.


echappist wrote:
GoatHerd wrote:

C'mon, you get gist of what I'm saying. Have you been & had a look at the articles on the L'Equipe website? It's ridiculous. This is the country where the TDF is being run. These are the same people who go fauning on the Messi articles, he who was openly put on a growth hormone program by Barcelona FC. I'm with the Badger on this one.




again, below is what you wrote, relevant portions bolded on my emphasis. it seems like your post is regarding posters in this thread and other threads on ST. only later do you mention l'Equipe. My point being, if you think the rest of us are being libelous, you may well want to look yourself in the mirror when you say you won't bet your house. There's a good reason JV never says a thing about it in public: for he knows that those words may come back to bite him should he ever be in the GB, where the libel laws are very loose.
GoatHerd wrote:
ANGRY RANT: Being skeptical about the Tour is a healthy thing. Heck, it's healthy to be skeptical about life in general. But I'm getting sick of all the idiots that post doping accusations w/out any proper knowledge, and often enough w/out even deeming it necessary to argue the point. "Froome is tanked up 2 the max" on it's own is a worthless statement, and possibly libelous. I wouldn't bet my house on Froome being clean, just as much as I wouldn't bet my house on the 2013 Evans being clean. No one KNOWS. Now go have a look at any article about the 2013 Tour in the French sports mag L'Equipe. There are hundreds, possibly thousands of comments saying "dopé" and "catch you in 2023", or words to that effect. I try to mitigate things by pointing that proof is needed, etc, and my comments (in good French) don't get past moderation. Weird. French press is putting serious pressure on Sky, and yet so far there is no evidence, no link w/ a Emma O'Reilly, or a Dr. Ferrari.
[/quote]
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [GoatHerd] [ In reply to ]
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i think i see where you are going as well. sorry that i misinterpreted early on
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [GoatHerd] [ In reply to ]
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Case in point: DB & Sky give Froome`s data to Fred Grappe, FDJ.fr`s much respected phiosiology & biomechanics doctor, who pronounces them coherant & compatible. The article in L`Equipe is entitled "Sky joue la transparence" i.e: Sky plays the transparency card. Biased journalism.
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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No probs. Should have made that clearer. Great to be chatting w/ other cycling fans, great thread!
echappist wrote:
i think i see where you are going as well. sorry that i misinterpreted early on
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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That was great. Now a few more days left, seems that Froomie, barring a total bonk, will hold on to the Jersey while they fight for podium spots. Solid 5 min lead, can't wait to see (read) if they're gonna make a major move.....
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [justChris] [ In reply to ]
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Do you have any connection to deadspin.com author Andy Hutchins?

http://deadspin.com/...ction-bull-832487973
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [GoatHerd] [ In reply to ]
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Allen Lim told me Lance wasn't doping - ROFLMFAO using a team physiologist to validate is total bullshit and you know it
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [bhobbs] [ In reply to ]
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Nope, just looks like he reads Slowtwitch. Thanks for the find.

One item that was incorrect on his summary, it wouldn't even need to be an annual dose. That statement from the article he links to refers to children that are in constant contact with contaminated water because they have no other option. I think Froome has the ability to stay away.

Seriously, with the information Froome has provided, it should be one treatment and done with the disease.
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Best photo of the race:



Suffer Well.
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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Just awesome.
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [justChris] [ In reply to ]
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justChris wrote:
Nope, just looks like he reads Slowtwitch. Thanks for the find.

One item that was incorrect on his summary, it wouldn't even need to be an annual dose. That statement from the article he links to refers to children that are in constant contact with contaminated water because they have no other option. I think Froome has the ability to stay away.

Seriously, with the information Froome has provided, it should be one treatment and done with the disease.

Just random I suppose that it was your first ever post in the forum. What are the odds?
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [bhobbs] [ In reply to ]
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bhobbs wrote:

Just random I suppose that it was your first ever post in the forum. What are the odds?

Random indeed. I'm a long time reader though, couple years at least. Just never had any information that hadn't already given by the experts here.
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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Utterly brilliant 2 photos. On another note, Saxo Tinkoff & Specialized prepare a special bike for AC, for the Champs Élysées parade, all tarted up in the colors of the 3 Grand Tour leader jerseys and... ruin it all by adding that crumby El Pistolero phony finger gun thingy on the top tube. Plus pretending to shoot people is very uncool in some parts of the world, where people actually get shot.


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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [GoatHerd] [ In reply to ]
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FYI, the Contador pistolero logo is known as the "Finger Bang."
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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jmh wrote:
Best photo of the race:


Almost too much awesomeness to handle in this pic. First the guy's OMG tanktop. Secondly, the tights. Third is the guy doing the tripping has on some super hipster jeans and hipster hi tops. Last is in the pic where the guy is hitting the deck, there is an old guy on the far right laughing.

_________________________________________________
When all is said and done. More is usually said than done
Ba Ba Booey

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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [justChris] [ In reply to ]
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justChris wrote:
Some of the statements regarding bilharzia by Team Sky cannot be true.
http://velonews.competitor.com/...rzia-parasite_295548

My wife works as a post-doc studying infectious diseases, primarily researching schistosomiasis - which is the more common, scientific name for bilharzia.
The treatment for schistosomiasis/bilharzia is biltricide (Praziquantel) as mentioned, but the treatment is a one-day treatment. Reference here: http://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/...75b1916b8#nlm34068-7 under dosage and adminsitration.

If schistosomasis/bilharzia was diagnosed in 2010, Froome should have been given the one day treatment and it should have no longer been an issue. The only reported occurrences of when the initial treatment does not eradicate the infection is when a heavy worm burden is in the system (i.e. a lot of worms infected Froome.) Even in those cases, treatment does not drag on for 18 months+. A heavy worm burden would also make the symptoms more severe than "I was always getting little colds and coughs, nothing serious".

Thus, it's unlikely to claim that it's still in his system (as of January according to the above article), unless he got re-infected by continuing to come into contact with contaminated waters. Given his reported history with this infection, that would be stupid.

There are other inconsistencies with the claims given:
"It’s not something that just disappears. It’s a parasite. It lays eggs. They might be dormant, then the eggs hatch, then they lay more eggs" - Completely false: Eggs laid in humans do not, and cannot hatch; they can only hatch in fresh water (after being excreted by humans). They also need interaction with snails before the hatched eggs can infect humans again. Source: Under Pathophysiology/Life Cycle - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schistosomiasis, also fairly common knowledge for those familiar with the infection.

Biltricide "basically kills everything in your system" - also false, same link above about the treatment under Adverse Effects - "In general BILTRICIDE is very well tolerated. Side effects are usually mild and transient and do not require treatment." Thus, a week of not being able to ride his bike is a ridiculous statement.

I'm not sure why they would lie to / misinform us about something like this....

Does your wife also work with top-level athletes who push themselves to the limits of what their body can handle in training? If not, do you think she would agree that it's possible that training that hard could cause them to experience more severe side-effects or complications than normal? And/or that such a finely tuned athlete would have a very different definition of what qualifies as an "adverse effect" to a normal person?

They're genuine questions, I know nothing about the disease than what can be found on the internet, and there's a lot of things out there like "the disease can normally be treated..." which don't really give much clue as to what complications or "non-normal" cases can look like.
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [Turd Ferguson] [ In reply to ]
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Turd Ferguson wrote:
jmh wrote:
Best photo of the race:



Almost too much awesomeness to handle in this pic. First the guy's OMG tanktop. Secondly, the tights. Third is the guy doing the tripping has on some super hipster jeans and hipster hi tops. Last is in the pic where the guy is hitting the deck, there is an old guy on the far right laughing.

Wise of him to wear his cycling gloves. He doesn't look like he makes a habit of thoughtful wardrobe choices
but wearing cycling gloves on that particular day is pure genius. I bet he's got another pair of cycling gloves
at home just like it.

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [HomerJSimpson] [ In reply to ]
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HomerJSimpson wrote:
Allen Lim told me Lance wasn't doping - ROFLMFAO using a team physiologist to validate is total bullshit and you know it

To be fair, it was L'Equipe that chose the person to do the analysis, not Team Sky.
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]
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What's even funnier is that there is a video of the 2 fans "fighting" after color guy gets tripped. To say it was a fight is generous, more like 2 7th grade girls slapping at each other. Epic stuff right there.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]
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pattersonpaul wrote:
Turd Ferguson wrote:
jmh wrote:
Best photo of the race:




Almost too much awesomeness to handle in this pic. First the guy's OMG tanktop. Secondly, the tights. Third is the guy doing the tripping has on some super hipster jeans and hipster hi tops. Last is in the pic where the guy is hitting the deck, there is an old guy on the far right laughing.


Wise of him to wear his cycling gloves. He doesn't look like he makes a habit of thoughtful wardrobe choices
but wearing cycling gloves on that particular day is pure genius. I bet he's got another pair of cycling gloves
at home just like it.


Couple of things:

  1. This guy has more vertical displacement in his stride than the gorilla
  2. Teejay is lucky that USAT ref's were not there. He'd have been DQ'd for illegal pacing.... and we'd have to start a stupid long thread here, much like that long winded thread here when Lance went cross country on the descent to Gap avoiding the Beloki tubular roll and everyone said that Lance should have been DQ'd on account of cutting the course...well he should have been DQ's but for other reasons.

Dev
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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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BDoughtie wrote:
What's even funnier is that there is a video of the 2 fans "fighting" after color guy gets tripped. To say it was a fight is generous, more like 2 7th grade girls slapping at each other. Epic stuff right there.

Post the link here please! :)
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