Froome may be winning Le Tour, but Sagan is winning cycling.

MONT VENTOUX (last 15.65 km [from St. Esteve], 8.74 %, 1368 m)

----TOP 50 LIST

-1. Lance Armstrong ______ USA | 48:33 | 2002
-2. Chris Froome _________ GBR | 48:35 | 2013
-3. Andy Schleck _________ LUX | 48.57 | 2009
-4. Alberto Contador _____ ESP | 48:57 | 2009
-5. Lance Armstrong ______ USA | 49:00 | 2009
-6. Marco Pantani ________ ITA | 49:01 | 2000
-7. Lance Armstrong ______ USA | 49:01 | 2000
-8. Frank Schleck ________ LUX | 49:02 | 2009
-9. Nairo Quintana _______ COL | 49:04 | 2013
10. Roman Kreuziger ______ CZE | 49:05 | 2009

A) 2nd fastest ever amongst admitted and convicted dopers.
B) No particular pedigree until Sky
C) Other Sky riders have made similar climbing gains since joining
D) High cadence at altitude is odd, it generally stresses the aerobic system more
E) Sky re loads, 2nd year in row that they have a team that can basically out ride the entire peloton on the climbs , in spite of the fact that they lost the Tour winner from last year.
F) Improbable explanations, they use power to pace, they have iunique training etc. Too many riders and support staff change teams to have an advantage remain secret for multiple season. Lemond won with aerbars, next year everyone had them, same with lycra same with drugs, same with aero equipment, PMs etc.
G) SKY mgmt calling their shot, don't be surprised if we ride up to doped levels because riders evolve, um yeah.

None of this is absolute proof but highly suspicious.

Don't know the circumstances, but they could have had a break with a hypothetical ten minute lead at the bottom. A rider who makes up nine minutes on the climb could have the fastest time ever but would not win. Other, similar scenarios with varying time deltas. :) Perhaps he gave a cadeau to somebody who he caught and used for pacing on the climb.

Never said that any of those are clean. Lemonds TT was straight, slightly DH and supposedly had a tailwind. and the only reason he still has the record is because you stipulate over 20 km. I believe admitted doper DZ had an even faster TT but is was just short of 20km.

All that aside its really bad analysis or poor masturbation form, if you will, to compare different courses. Distances, elevations, etc can all be a bit off, but Mt Ventoux hasn;t changed. Environment and strategy can still muck up the results, but at least its apples to apples on the distance and elevation.

There degrees of flaws. Two guys on different mtns and trying to compare which time is "better" is a worse comparison that 2 guys racing the exact same climb on different days which is worse than 2 guys climbing the exact same climb on the same day.

Someone has to win, but when a guy with no particlular pedigree prior to a few years age climbs has the best or 2nd best time up 2 separate climbs and those times put him amongst convicted or admited dopers then I'm suspicious.

Its not proof, but , if WADA does target suspicious riders, whom would you suggest they target instead?

I've got no problem with WADA target testing certain riders. It makes sense. I do have a problem with people calling somebody a doper basically because he won. I'm seeing a lot of that here, on cyclingnews forums (frankly, one of the most poisonous cesspools on the internet) and comments, on Twitter, etc. Nobody has any evidence except that he went fast.

BTW, how Lemond take 58 seconds from Fignon such a short TT? Same course, same day, just minutes apart. And why did he only take 56 seconds from Fignon in the early TT of 73km? Again, I don't believe that Lemond was on dope, but I could make a bullshit case that he doped for the final TT that would be about as good as what I'm seeing regarding Froome in this Tour.

I don't think it's so much that he won ... it's how he won that looks "Very" suspicious. He was climbing at threshold for a long period, then literally sprints for 30 seconds or so dusting Contador like he was some second fiddle pack fodder ... then settles back into a threshold climb, catch Quintero ... rides tempo, lifts the pace and drops him like pack fodder as well.

If it was close and he was scratching and clawing his way to wins (and showed actual signs of exhaustion) ... there would be less questioning, but that's not the case. Not only is he destroying the best in the world who peak and train year round for this one race ... he is destroying them and making it look very easy. He's not even gassed at the end of climbs while other guys are almost falling over from exhaustion, many of which are former dopers (and likely current dopers).

It doesn't add up and history has proven when you see this type of performance ... it's not real. Remember ... those of forget the past (or in this case ignore it) are condemned to repeat it.


People love to use Lemond as an example, and maybe the only example, of a clean rider with super human performances ... with that said, I don't believe him. He was seen being given shots by a reporter that he "Claims" were "Iron" shots ... when the reality is he doesn't really know (or maybe he does) what was in those shots. His last win falls in line with the start of the EPO era and he magically went from getting creamed in the climbs a month or two before that win, to winning the TDF.

Again ... it doesn't add up, but it was long enough ago and he was probably nice enough to those around him that nothing has come out about it, just as it hasn't with many others that likely were doping at the time, but were never caught and nobody said anything about ... it's the "Code" of the peloton and industry unless you are a complete jerk to everybody around you (i.e. Armstrong).

1. Maybe an off-form Contador was already completely on the limit when Froome made his move?
2. You have no idea what kind of effort he was putting in; dude looks like he's about to fall off his bike because he stares at his power meter every 3 seconds. And what kind of eye test are you giving where he doesn't look tired?
3. He beat Quintana by less than half a minute, and it took three tries passing him.
4. He has a 3 minute advantage, and the GC field is pretty weak. The big names from last year's Vuelta (Contador, Valverde, Rodriguez) clearly aren't on form, Bauke Mollema and Laurens f'ing Ten Dam are hanging around the podium, the prior-to-this-year eternally disappointing Roman Kreuziger is in the top-5, and a 23-year old is the only one who can climb with Froome.
5. THERE IS NO REAL EVIDENCE, ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE, HEARSAY, TRACK RECORD, OR ANYTHING tying Sky, Wiggins or Froome to dope.
6. Using the fact that a rider (Lemond) took shots in the 80's as any kind of evidence is not evidence. Riders took vitamin shots. Vehement anti-doping advocates who rode in the peleton (ie Paul Kimmage) have confirmed that if you were clean, you still took vitamin shots.
7. It's almost like he peaked for the race. Andy Schleck went from getting destroyed in the Tour of California to winning the TDF in 2010.
8. What grand cycling experience do you have that you know the specs of cycling omerta?

The simple fact is every GC rider comes to the TDF on peak form because it is "THE RACE" of the season any longer

Power13 wrote:

Quote:

The simple fact is every GC rider comes to the TDF on peak form because it is "THE RACE" of the season any longer

Yup.....Cadel and Teejay are definitely in peak form right now. How many pros schitt the bed every October in Kona? Using your logic, they should all be on peak form because it is "THE RACE" of the season.

C'Mon....human pformance is not an exact science. People come into their peak events off for any number of reasons.

However ... the doubters on this thread crack me up ... everybody but Froome came in off form, year sure. It's nice to want to believe the peloton is cleaning up, but so many things in this TDF point to it not cleaning up, just Omerta continuing, business as usual.

They are all on form and Froome is blowing them out of the water ... simple as that!

Power13 wrote:

I find it kinda humorous that Froome is roundly flamed as a doper, but everyone thinks a guy who can go toe-to-toe with the best sprinters, win races with hilltop finishes, and be considered a favorite for races like Amstel is the king schitt.

Little consistency, please?

(Not a reply to Erice specifically, just the general trend)

No consistency needed the guys does wheelies on a road bike.....WHEELIES!!!!

Wookiebiker wrote:

So ... you named two riders who are struggling (both from the same team I might add), however ... it's not as if they didn't come in with every intention and desire to be on peak form.

However ... the doubters on this thread crack me up ... everybody but Froome came in off form, year sure. It's nice to want to believe the peloton is cleaning up, but so many things in this TDF point to it not cleaning up, just Omerta continuing, business as usual.

So this is what "Clean" riders look like 15 stages into a race, half way up a 21k climb after riding such a hard tempo there was only one rider left on his wheel???

So ... you named two riders who are struggling (both from the same team I might add), however ... it's not as if they didn't come in with every intention and desire to be on peak form.