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2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels"
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The “M5 Two Spoke” has the LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels compared to 12 or 16 steel bladed spokes or 3, 4, 5, or 6 carbon bladed wheels and even DISC wheels! This means the “M5 Two Spoke” is currently the fastest wheel in the world.

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The benefits of this wheel in a one hour time trial compared to a standard carbon 3-spoke wheel can be as much as 2.5 minutes (!) when averaging 51 km/h.

Tested at AeroPro

But no aero data other than this 90 degree crosswind data and some CFD images



Rim width: 23.7 mm rim section. UCI approved.
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For the 3D design of the 2-SPOKE wheel Bram worked together with Bob Vroegh from the company “Vroegh Design”

I'm intrigued: https://www.bikerumor.com/...-disc-brake-version/

http://www.2-spoke.com/



___________________________________
milesthedog on strava
Last edited by: milesthedog: Feb 28, 17 12:03
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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You're three weeks late to the party.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...BTom_A.%5D_P6218046/

2020 Races not yet canceled:
Ironman Chattanooga and Ironman Arizona

Favorite Gear: Dimond | TriRig | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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what about a 1 spoke wheel?
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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refthimos wrote:
0 spokes or GTFO

I almost have my Zwift Tron bike. I'm at 97%.

2020 Races not yet canceled:
Ironman Chattanooga and Ironman Arizona

Favorite Gear: Dimond | TriRig | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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But man is it ugly.
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
I almost have my Zwift Tron bike. I'm at 97%.

Why aren't you Zwifting right now then? Or are you?

Race Director, Velo Club La Grange (http://www.lagrange.org)
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Ok, first off, what the hell is a 90-degree crosswind? For bike aerodynamics we use yaw angles, which we get from trigonometry -- resolving the vectors of bike and wind speed and direction. If you play with the permutations, a wind hitting the side of your bike at 90 degrees isn't a condition you need to worry about much -- unless you like to stand perfectly still during races.

IIRC, Kraig Willett of BikeTechReview.com once sawed a spoke off a tri-spoke and tested it. I believe there's some video of him riding it.

There has been a long debate about whether a bike hangs from the spokes at the top of the wheel or rests on the spokes on the bottom. Nobody has ever made a case for the bike being suspended between the spokes horizontally.


Somehow this makes me think of the old Spinergy Rev-X wheels:

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-020/






Last edited by: jens: Feb 28, 17 15:03
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [jens] [ In reply to ]
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jens wrote:

Ok, first off, what the hell is a 90-degree crosswind? For bike aerodynamics we use yaw angles, which we get from trigonometry -- resolving the vectors of bike and wind speed and direction. If you play with the permutations, a wind hitting the side of your bike at 90 degrees isn't a condition you need to worry about much -- unless you like to stand perfectly still during races.

IIRC, Kraig Willett of BikeTechReview.com once sawed a spoke off a tri-spoke and tested it. I believe there's some video of him riding it.

There has been a long debate about whether a bike hangs from the spokes at the top of the wheel or rests on the spokes on the bottom. Nobody has ever made a case for the bike being suspended between the spokes horizontally.


Somehow this makes me think of the old Spinergy Rev-X wheels:

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-020/

For the items in bold, is it not irrelevant?...if you fill in the spokes with a disk the bike is just resting on the rim. The spoked wheel is just a disk wheel with spacing in the disk. Whether it is a 28 spoked wheel, standard disk wheel, tri spoke, dual spoke, they are all just variants of the Fred Flintstone wheel all with a hub in the middle that the bike attaches. So if you just drew a free body diagram, it's going to look the same for all the types of wheels at the point where the hub attaches to the fork/chainstay or where the circular wheel touches the ground.





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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Regardless, I could see a 2 spoke wheel potentially being weak. I'd want to see some pretty substantial destructive testing before trusting one myself.

This wheel has some interesting design ideas but they really need to step it up with their data. It's likely more stable in cross winds than a tri spoke and it's also probably harder for a squirrel to get caught in the front wheel :)
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Imagine the scenario where you hit a pothole or a nasty bump precisely when the two spokes are horizontal. There will be an incredible amount of leverage where the spokes connect to both the rim and the hub. I'm no engineer, but I doubt the wheel is going to be anywhere near as strong in that situation as a wheel that has one or more spokes that are nearly vertical.
Last edited by: jens: Mar 1, 17 6:40
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [jens] [ In reply to ]
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jens wrote:
what the hell is a 90-degree crosswind?

The crux of the issue right there. These "data" are fricking retar...., er, useless.
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [jens] [ In reply to ]
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jens wrote:

Imagine the scenario where you hit a pothole or a nasty bump precisely when the two spokes are horizontal. There will be an incredible amount of leverage where the spokes connect to both the rim and the hub. I'm no engineer, but I doubt the wheel is going to be anywhere near as strong in that situation as a wheel that has one or more spokes that are nearly vertical.

The two spokes should be designed to act structurally as a fixed end beam with a point load at the center. It should have a factor of safety built in to handle impact loads. Hopefully.

Mike
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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I do actually have a set of two-spokes so let me try to answer. They were part of a sponsordeal, I got them for free so needless to say my answer will be extremely biased.

I race for The Netherlands, it is one of the poorest countries in the world so even our top athletes can't afford Zipp wheels. For me the two-spoke was a huge upgrade after the wooden wheels I was used to. There are pictures of me on the internet, suggesting I formerly rode Xentis, 808/808 and 808/disc. Don't believe everything you see on the internet.

Dutch engineering can't be trusted either. We built a country below sea level. That is just impossible. The two-spoke is a hoax, they will break into a million pieces over the first pothole. Yes we did send our national tandem to Rio on two-spokes, but everybody knows there's two riders on a tandem so the stress on the wheel is only half, right? That is just cheating. And the tandem came second, so they lost. Olympic silver is no good.

Sarcasm aside, nearly all current national champions for The Netherlands, in all UCI and ITU categories now ride the two-spoke, be it elite without contract (Remco Grasman), UCI masters (that would be me), handbike (Jetze Plat) or Triathlon (Bas Diederen). The odd one out is elite with contract Tom Dumoulin, as he's tied to an existing sponsor contract (and you can't really repaint/resticker these wheels, it will show).

So Tom doesn't have a choice, but I do. Guess what I am racing with this season.

As for looks, that is a personal matter. I think they look hot but if you think they're fugly that's fine by me. I just like to be faster than you, not prettier.

Here is my 2017 bike, looking smug at Club La Santa (I should have removed the saddlebag for the foto). My friends call it the batbike. Mind you, this is a fully UCI-legal TT bike.



PM me if you're serious and want to test ride the two-spokes, as that can be arranged. I live near Club La Santa (Canarias), a very nice destination for your next training camp. In a field test, your powermeter and GPS will tell you all you need to know. What you will also find out in a test are those little things. How these wheels have a ceramic lining on the rim that gives your brakes a real "bite". My Shiv-TT used to be downright scary in the descents on all other carbon clinchers, now I can brake into hairpins with confidence. Those are free seconds in every corner. They also make the nicest propeller sound at speed. Something to listen to and keep you in the zone.

Happy TimeTrials, Pieter Aben
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting wheel. Actually, a structural disc (as opposed a wire spoked wheel that's covered, like a Hed) as two spokes; that's the argument that enabled UCI to accept discs from the start.
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [PieterAben] [ In reply to ]
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That looks slick!

Any chance you could get someone from the company to come on here and give us some more info on how the wheel was developed: brake track, destructive testing, etc. would all be helpful info.
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Flying there next week, I have a meeting planned at the twospoke factory. Your question is on my list.

Regards Pieter
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [PieterAben] [ In reply to ]
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Would love to see more data on these

AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [PieterAben] [ In reply to ]
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The Netherlands is poor?
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [PieterAben] [ In reply to ]
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Pieter,

Have you tested or ridden with a rear disc and the two spoke upfront?

Thanks
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
The Netherlands is poor?
Maybe he means they make poor decisions, like drink Heineken and sing 'polonaise hollandaise' :p
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
The Netherlands is poor?

I think his first 3 paragraphs are all sarcastic, e.g. he didn't really used to ride "wooden wheels", and Dutch engineering is quite outstanding b/c their engineers were able to build and maintain a country that is actually below sea level. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Come on Slowtwitchers...of course he is being sarcastic...Have you ever done business with a Kaaskop...no pun intended!
If you haven't....I would highly advise you to do your homework x 10.
Never underestimate the Dutch...they are cutting edge.
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [PieterAben] [ In reply to ]
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PieterAben wrote:
Sarcasm aside, nearly all current national champions for The Netherlands, in all UCI and ITU categories now ride the two-spoke, be it elite without contract (Remco Grasman), UCI masters (that would be me), handbike (Jetze Plat) or Triathlon (Bas Diederen). The odd one out is elite with contract Tom Dumoulin, as he's tied to an existing sponsor contract (and you can't really repaint/resticker these wheels, it will show).

So Tom doesn't have a choice, but I do. Guess what I am racing with this season.

Well that´s quite off a non-argument. All of those guys were champions before they had those wheels. And looking around they sponsor all of the already fast guys in the Netherlands... So it's an easy claim to make..
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Re: 2-Spoke Wheel - huge aero claims: "LOWEST air resistance of ALL existing wheels" [PieterAben] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for putting this post back on the front page. I think these wheels look awesome. I have no idea if they are fast or not, but I'm going to try and buy a front just to have it. If nothing else, I'll hang it on my wall as art.

Dimond Bikes
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