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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly [trifaster] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Dave. The number 1 reason, why I would not do this race is when a race organization says they don't want to involve the local community. To me, triathlon has always been about the "local sports community". When I race on the road, I feel like I'm a guest of the local sports community, whereas when I go to McDonalds in any town, I don't feel like I'm a guest of the local community, rather visiting a corporate outlet that happens to be in the local community. Even WTC races, even through they are a corporate "outlet" still tie in the local sports community. These guys would benefit from working with the local leaders.

Dev
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Dev ...

I agree ... the locale for this race makes logistics difficult enough because it is very remote. If I was still involved in race production I'd want to make it easier on myself by getting some local support and developing relationships. For one thing ... there really is no restaurant, convenience store, motel, potable water(?) or vending machine close the the race venue (though resources say that will change in the years to come ... maybe many years) Athletes and spectators need to be prepared for the lack of resources AND/OR the race production team would want to provide resources for them.

I really want races to flourish and provide great opportunities for athletes but nobody wants another sub standard race that can't deliver on what is advertised.

Lets stay tuned to see what happens!

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly **UPDATE day two races [monty] [ In reply to ]
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thanks for the info - really appreciated.

******************************************
Have Fun ** Tri Hard ** Be Kind
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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rcmioga wrote:
Thanks for the report!

I'm bummed about the conclusion but not surprised. One of my triathlon rules is to never do an innagural triathlon for just these reasons.

Did you adopt this rule after the 2010 Presidential Lakes triathlon?

:-)

I think you can trust an RD who has put on races successfully in the past to continue to do so in new races. For instance, JS Multisport did a new race in 2010 (Vice Versa) and in 2011 (Double Trouble), both of which were different than normal events, and did so flawlessly.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly **UPDATE day two races [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Thats about as bush league as it gets right there
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly [number114] [ In reply to ]
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number114 wrote:
Are you done yet? I don't know how much longer I could wait for a LC race report. Just kidding, hope everything went smooth and your race was fast aand safe.

Finished in just under 5:30. Basically jumped in the car 20 minutes later for the drive home. Can't post an RR until I get the kids in bed. My son wants to wrestle (he's 4). Nothing like wrestling after a half IM!

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My business-eBodyboarding.com
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Good point but it's been a long standing rule for me. With someone like Chuck Sellers....who's done about 400 races I make an exception..still you have to admit that race was a little rough around the edges....

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly [TriBodyboarder] [ In reply to ]
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Oh, and by the way, STer Sailnfast (Fred Gilbert) went under 5 hours in the half to finish 6th overall.

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My business-eBodyboarding.com
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly [TriBodyboarder] [ In reply to ]
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Way to go Jay, and no doubt i rode along and talked to Fred. I chatted up i think 3rd to about 10th place on the run course. Can't wait for the RR, have a good wrestle!
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Looked at the results, looks like 120 people did the half and 20 are doing the full (or I should say, 20 are shown in the results as having started the run).

Gap between the winner (just under 10h) and last might be several hours... so volunteers may not see anybody at certain times for maybe 20-40 minutes. Wow. That's tough for the organizer, racers and volunteers!


_____________________
Don't forget to attack!
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly [Cobble] [ In reply to ]
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I went to a late afternoon swim at a pool on the run course, and you want to talk about sad, i saw the race director alone manning an aid station. It could have been he was just making sure it was stocked, but it was empty of people. All the stations i saw today just had one person, so I'm sure many will just go on autopilot for the full folks. iF it hadn't hit him that they were alarmingly unprepared, I sure picking up cups from the gutter during the race, and filling up cups to lonely wait for the next person, probably sent the message home..

Good for him getting out there an making sure cups were filled, but not really your job as RD to be doing what the local boy scout troop should be doing..

Oh, forgot that he also had to strip down during my race and paddle out to make a rescue, now that is wearing too many hats..
Last edited by: monty: Dec 4, 11 18:42
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly **UPDATE day two races [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Monty,

I really do not have a horse in that race,
but I remember you saying how you always loved it back then. You know, grass roots, finding your own way, being self sufficient. Where'd that go?

I understand that the entry-fees were not grassroots and one could expect to get more for what one pays, but it was your choice to pay up and enter that race EVEN SO you were in the know that it would be a tough go.

To an onlooker it looks a little bit like sour grapes that they didn't "consult" you or the "desert slowtwitch mafia" when putting on a race in your backyard.

And your valid criticism could also be addressed better, although I am sure you personally did let the RD know about your constructive criticism.
Piling on like that is not really helping the cause (triathlon) or the event.

As I said, I don't know these guys at all, and have absolutely no personal or professional interest in HITS (?).
But SoCal should have more races in the winter.
If I were you I would do everything to support that somebody tries to have a couple of winter races there, if I would still live down there (how about volunteering instead of chatting up the 10 front guys?).
In that context, when are You (collective) putting on a race in that area?
Last edited by: windschatten: Dec 4, 11 19:21
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly **UPDATE day two races [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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You are right, a lot about the old days i miss. What i have never said is that i miss all the mis marked courses i got led off on. Even in my very 1st races in 79, there were tons of lifeguards, real ones, and that has not changed as a need, in fact gotten more serious over time. There are still events that are basic, but so are their costs. This was not a cheap race, but came off as one. And i have no sour grapes at all, i said up front that i want these guys to survive and thrive. I love the idea of what they are doing. It just didn;t go as they planned or advertised, by a lot. I never asked for a job from them, although someone else recommended me as someone to maybe talk to. I felt all along that they should have hooked up with Greg Klein, a guy that has been putting on races since the mid 80's, and uses that exact same venue several times a year. He was the logical go to guy, and that is the 1st thing i would have told them.

As to me volunteering, i would have loved to been involved. But i never got that call after they were told that i could be a resource. I would have loved to head up the lifeguards, i after all was a professional for 30 years, and race directed over 60 races and had to deal with the water situations. But they were confident in their own abilities, and as you have seen from other posters, have not counciled local knowledge in triathlon at several of their venues. And nice cheap shot at me today, so here you go. I have a 4 month old son, and i get a couple windows to get out of the house and try and get in a workout or two. I decided to do my easy after race ride on the course just to have a look, and got exactly an hour to get in a loosen down swim before my wife needed me to watch the baby.. How was your day??

And i'm trying to support these guys. I paid my big entry fee, and did my race. I could ignore everything i guess and just live with my head in the sand, but if you know me at all, it is not my style. Stuff was going to come out one way or the other, did you see the other thread?? I prefaced mine with a disclaimer at the front that none of this is personal. And whether this is going to helpful or not, it is up to them. If they get all defensive, it will not be good. Best bet is to just make an apology, and promise to make some big changes for future races. They are not going to be dead just because of this, in fact if you read through here, there is a lot of support and hope for them. You are right, we need as many winter races as possible, let's hope this false start gets corrected.

And to your last point, I'm in some talks about a small race series here in the coachella valley, I will keep this site up to date on any progress.
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly **UPDATE day two races [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I understand and respect your honest motives and you at least have earned the right to criticize them.
Otherwise; I just wouldn't do my "warm-down" on an active race course... and would have reached out to the organizers if I had the time and were there anyway.
Just speaking hypothetically, of course.

Asking about my day?
An hour bike commute each way to and from work up and down the chilly SF bay peninsula.
But I am glad I have a job I somewhat enjoy and can pay my bills. Not complaining.

Thanks for asking.




.
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly **UPDATE day two races [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Monte, I'm writing just to confirm and share....this is the story I got from one of my athletes and it seems to jive with the lack of direction on the bike course that you experienced. But let me first say...yes, I hope they succeed, yes, I think the mico-mini freebie race is great, yes, I know they'll get better fast - just look at what you described from day one to day two.

I"m coaching a young guy, he's solid and doing well. He had a goal of going under 2:05 at the Oly yesterday at HITS. He swim a 20 min swim and is second out of the water. He has a fast T1 (he just finished racing a season as a Junior Elite in DL races so he's quick in transition). He's first out on the bike and there's NOTHING! He's studied the maps, he pre-road the course, he knows the golden rule of triathlon: "it's the athlete's responsibility to know the course".

So he is heading out to the turnaround...he's on 66th and makes a right on Harrison - as the map has shown, as it still shows now. He even told me that as he approached that intersection there was a cop resting against his car and that the cop was sort of surprised to see him, but you've lead enough races to have experienced that sort of thing. The cop gestures toward Harrison and that's in sync with what the athlete knows. So he's riding up Harrison and riding and riding and he KNOWS the turn around is before 72nd but arrives there without seeing any one or any thing. So he suspects something is amiss. He turns around, heads back on the course (it's an out and back). He turns off Harrison and back onto 66th and ~100m down the road sees a volunteer and some cones set up to guide the athltes up a road that comes prior to Harrison (as I look at the map, I think that's Nena Dr). Keep in mind, this volunteer and those cones were not there when the athlete arrived at that intersection leading the race.

So now he's pissed and in the "heat of the moment" and pushes his limit of 290w to 340 to try and make up. He's crushing it - comes out of T2 with his hair on fire, striving to make his goal and blows up at mile 2 and is so bummed that he just walks back to transition. Done.

I"m curious if anyone on the forum was early in the Olympic race had heard anything about the course change and/or saw the turn get set up at 66th and Nena.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly **UPDATE day two races [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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No offense, but your athlete needs to learn not to thrown "wattage tantrums" in a race. And he needs to learn to suck it up and finish a race even when he's hurting and not going to make a specific goal.

Bob
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly **UPDATE day two races [Macho Grande] [ In reply to ]
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There is something to be said for that but he's young and impetuous. His goal yesterday wasn't to avoid a DNF, his goal is to go fast and do well or bust and did just that.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly **UPDATE day two races [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
I understand and respect your honest motives and you at least have earned the right to criticize them.
Otherwise; I just wouldn't do my "warm-down" on an active race course... and would have reached out to the organizers if I had the time and were there anyway.
Just speaking hypothetically, of course.

Asking about my day?
An hour bike commute each way to and from work up and down the chilly SF bay peninsula.
But I am glad I have a job I somewhat enjoy and can pay my bills. Not complaining.

Thanks for asking.

I don't think you understand how "active" the race course was with the small number of racers. My Sunday morning ride included part of the bike course. The riders were so spread apart that it was, by no stretch of the imagination, in any way whatsoever, intrusive or disruptive to the racers to be riding on the same streets. We would see one guy, then, like five minutes later, someone else. These roads were completely open to traffic, with no cones or other indications that it was a race (except at turns, where there were police and/or volunteers directing traffic and racers). There is a bike lane on most of these streets. This route also mimics a cycling route very popular on weekends here, so it is no surprise that cyclists would do their normal Sunday ride on the race route.


.
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Just updated some observations of todays races in my original post..

I'm just glad to be back in the saddle again..

As am I. My race today went well and I had a lot of fun enjoying SoCal at its best. The horse is beaten totally dead (pun intended) about the lifeguards, so I won't go there. At low-mid 50's degrees, the water was challenging and I momentarily thought about abandoning before even starting to race. However, I was less than 30 seconds from the starting whistle at that point and suddenly I was racing.

My contribution to constructive criticism is that the RD should buy some chalk or duct tape to better mark the bike course. I ride pretty steep and since I'm so small, I only see about 10 feet in front of me when I'm aero. Having markings on the road where my eyes are would lessen going off course. The cardboard direction signs blew over and there was no indication of which way to go towards the end of the ride. At times, bikes were going in all directions at intersections and the course was full of turns.

Having correct mile markers would definitely improve the racing experience on the run. The final mile was close to 1.5 miles long.

The aid stations could use sun tan lotion and vaseline for chafing. These suggestions would turn a good race into a great race and keep people coming back.

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Way to go Jay, and no doubt i rode along and talked to Fred. I chatted up i think 3rd to about 10th place on the run course. Can't wait for the RR, have a good wrestle!

Monty, I thought that was you on the white/red Cervelo. I was running side by side with another guy and you came by around mile 8 or so...thanks for the chat as I was really hurting around then, but finished strong.

I'll post some detailed feedback on my race later. You make some very good points that I completely agree with you, but know these guys will work to improve. After the finish one of the race staff was asking the top 7 or 8 guys for candid feedback. He was really appreciative and was even going to try and resolve a few things immediately. With the deep pockets these guys appear to have (hello 7 figure ad budget) and their enthusiasm I'm hopeful they can fix these issues and survive. Time will tell.
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly [TriBodyboarder] [ In reply to ]
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TriBodyboarder wrote:
Oh, and by the way, STer Sailnfast (Fred Gilbert) went under 5 hours in the half to finish 6th overall.

Jay, great seeing you today and congrats on a solid race!
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly **UPDATE day two races [monty] [ In reply to ]
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I did the full and finished in 9:57. It was quite a tough day out there with really no fast splits to be had despite being the flattest course in history. Wind was a bit weird and swirly and picked up a bit on the second loop. Anyway, here is some of my feedback regarding the race.

  • I'm going to have to echo the sentiments that there were sketchy points in the bike where it was a bit unsafe, but some of this had to do with cops just getting bored due to the tiny field size.
  • Excellent transition area with nice racks for bikes and stools for changing.
  • No calories on the bike, just water and pretty inconsistent volunteers but they were quite new to triathlon I think. I was basically self supported and it completely shelled me on the bike.
  • Great scenery and nice temperatures for a full distance race.
  • Parts of the ride were really rough in terms of road surface, but hey...that's racing.
  • For the run, my main issue was no coke at the aid stations. I was nearly a dead man by mile 14, trying to suck down broth and that Heed crap. I mentioned this to the aid station volunteer and she radioed the race director who stocked about five to six aid stations with coke and had it to me within a half mile. It was incredible and saved my race. They heard the feedback and reacted immediately. Awesome.
  • The mile markers were off on the bike (slightly) and the run significantly which was very frustrating at "mile 20".
  • The volunteers and race staff were incredibly friendly.

It was overall a good experience at a race that definitely had some growing pains but the staff seems very invested in taking feedback and implementing it. Turns out, it is very tough to do a solo full distance race. Quite a bit of pain out there. The finish line was awesome, the staff and crowd were hyped up, and snapping the tape was something I won't forget. I will be doing a HITS race again.
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly **UPDATE day two races [severinj] [ In reply to ]
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Absolutely amazing! You guys that did the full, with such a small field, were truly lone soldiers out there! My hat is off to you!

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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly **UPDATE day two races [severinj] [ In reply to ]
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Ya, really nice effort out there, it will be a race you always remember for sure. Just riding the entire run course in my easy spin yesterday I was thinking how hard it was going to be to have already run it once, and then start it all over from the beginning again. Good you were pretty fast too, it would have been very lonely in the dark. Did you have a GPS for the run, just curious if it was 26.2 or there about. And glad you got your coke too, i have been there many times, and that is all i can drink, and what i need to drink to just stay upright. There was a little old market on the course and as i passed i wondered if anyone jumped in and told the owner they would gladly pay them monday for a coke on sunday..(old popeye joke)
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Re: 1st HITS triathlon, the good, the bad, the ugly **UPDATE day two races [severinj] [ In reply to ]
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Nice race report and I echo Jay's sentiment that you had to be made of 'tuff stuff' to be out there so long by yourself. I passed you in my car and the expression on your face said that you were suffering.

Congratulations on finishing so well and like you, I will be back next year for their championship race.

DFL > DNF > DNS
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