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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
Damn, Sagan started sprinting from way too far out. Think he could have held on if he started at 150-175m as opposed to 225-250m like he did

Exactly. He had the win if he just waited a little longer. Sagan has always gone early at msr, see 2013.

I was actually rooting for allaphilippe, if only because qs needs a big win this spring or they're going to have a hard time justifying big sponsorship next year.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]
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just watched it again......when Sagan attacked and Kwiat and Alaphilippe followed there was a moment where Kwiat made Ala work to close a gap and he did....but this was almost Richmond all over again.....Kwiat was brilliant...amazing racing.....
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]
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Karl.n wrote:
echappist wrote:

Damn, Sagan started sprinting from way too far out. Think he could have held on if he started at 150-175m as opposed to 225-250m like he did


Exactly. He had the win if he just waited a little longer. Sagan has always gone early at msr, see 2013.

I was actually rooting for allaphilippe, if only because qs needs a big win this spring or they're going to have a hard time justifying big sponsorship next year.

for a moment it was a small gap between him a KW, I think he tho that between the sprint and that gap he will win it.

yeah, he started the sprint to early :-/

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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damn, what a messed up sport,


It seems that way, but there is a lot of respect and acknowledgment among the riders that this is the way it is.

Have a read of Sagan's post race comments - http://www.cyclingnews.com/...ew-beers-says-sagan/

Sagan asked for some help with about 500m to go, but they did not come around. The pack was close and everyone is on the limit, so you do what you can in the moment! At that point Sagan knew he would have to win it from the front and risk dragging the other two to the line!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Yes. I have a hard time with people implying he "went too early".

7hr and 10 minutes on the bike
A massive effort to attack in the climactic climb.
A group of the world's fastest riders bearing down, seconds away.
And - he lost by half a foot!
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [LuisDF] [ In reply to ]
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LuisDF wrote:
Karl.n wrote:
echappist wrote:

Damn, Sagan started sprinting from way too far out. Think he could have held on if he started at 150-175m as opposed to 225-250m like he did


Exactly. He had the win if he just waited a little longer. Sagan has always gone early at msr, see 2013.

I was actually rooting for allaphilippe, if only because qs needs a big win this spring or they're going to have a hard time justifying big sponsorship next year.


for a moment it was a small gap between him a KW, I think he tho that between the sprint and that gap he will win it.

yeah, he started the sprint to early :-/


Actually, now that I rewatch the finish, it looks like KW allowed a small gap to open that Sagan was trying to capitalize on. If so then very savvy racing on Sagans part, but just too much tactical racing working against him.


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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [daveTDF] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. What a finish, current and former world champs just dueling it out. Props to Julian as well but he just didn't have the legs to win that sprint.

Sagan is a class act. Almost causes a crash with his bike throw, but immediately gives MK a fist bump after the line as if to say sorry and contgrats. What a spring MK is having. Strade and now MSR.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
damn, what a messed up sport,


It seems that way, but there is a lot of respect and acknowledgment among the riders that this is the way it is."

I know, just feel bad for Sagan when this happens and it's a testament to his pre eminence that it does. Like I said, they all know he's king of the jungle.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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It was a brilliant move by Sagan. Had he won by a foot it would have made him more legendary but didn't go his way. Once he committed that was it. Kwiat is clearly back to his old form. Was glad JA didn't win, he looked like Nibali a couple years ago realizing he was in the wrong place.

Even thought it was second, I imagine it reinforces everyone being scared sh*tless of what he can do on any course where he's feeling good.
Last edited by: Carl Spackler: Mar 18, 17 15:58
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [daveTDF] [ In reply to ]
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7hr and 10 minutes on the bike
A massive effort to attack in the climactic climb.
A group of the world's fastest riders bearing down, seconds away.
And - he lost by half a foot!


That's the thing about MSR - nearly 300K and 7 hours in the saddle, you are not really sure how your legs will be, right at the end. Cancellara, as strong/fit as he was cramped up a few times in the final dash to the line at MSR!

Onward to Belgium! :)


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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After watching the final 20k of MSR again it was interesting to see how Kiwat actually could not close down the gap, Alaphillippe had to close it down after Kiwat failed to get on Sagan's wheel. Quite interesting as well that GVA could not follow.

Now we are on to DDV, a semi-classic, some definite climbing, but not at the same level as races to come, who do you have for the podium? It seems a lot of the favorites tend to sit in during this race, possibly still recovering from MSR and saving some for the following weekend. I think we will see a small group get away on the final climb at 10k to go, possibly Sep/Stybar getting on the podium. Not sure if Sagan will seriously race DDV, he will probably want to cruise and prepare for E3 then GW two days later.

On a side note i do wonder if Sagan might try his hand at Fleche Wallonne or Amstel Gold, he clearly has the ability, but can he extend his form for a few more weeks past Roubaix and still race the TDF?
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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On a side note i do wonder if Sagan might try his hand at Fleche Wallonne or Amstel Gold, he clearly has the ability, but can he extend his form for a few more weeks past Roubaix and still race the TDF?

It would seem that these days the comments coming from the top riders that it's not possible to focus on both the cobbled Classics and the Ardennes Races to follow. If you race the cobbled classics hard, you will be cooked for the Ardennes.

In fact, Kwiatowski said as much in a post MSR interview - that he was going to take a couple of weeks to recover and train, skip the Cobbled races and be back for the Ardennes - saying it's too much to keep going full gas from MSR all the way through to the Ardennes races.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Kwiatowski said as much in a post MSR interview - that he was going to take a couple of weeks to recover and train, skip the Cobbled races and be back for the Ardennes - saying it's too much to keep going full gas from MSR all the way through to the Ardennes races

good call there. he's in great form. wrap up 2017 now and he's had a good year.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]
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If you read and believe KW's post race comments, he intentionally let that gap develop betting Sagan would see it and start his sprint. Taking those comments into consideration along with how Sagan stalled at the end, I think it's pretty hard to argue he didn't sprint a bit early. KW baited him to do it and it worked out.

I hate seeing Sagan lose (really ever) when he is so strong and does so much work, however he wins races for the same reasons he comes in second. He is going to have to continue to operate in much the same way for the foreseeable future because he chose to go with Bora and a comparably weak team who won't be able to support him. I assume it was purely financial and they would let him bring his little posse of friends/teamates. Could you imagine if he had an arsenal like QS or Sky to support him? Would be scary, however I honestly don't think he finds that appealing - seems he, like Contador, takes pride in making the races almost as much as winning them. He likes to float around and try to find ways to win or lose on his own.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [flynnzu] [ In reply to ]
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flynnzu wrote:
If you read and believe KW's post race comments, he intentionally let that gap develop betting Sagan would see it and start his sprint. Taking those comments into consideration along with how Sagan stalled at the end, I think it's pretty hard to argue he didn't sprint a bit early. KW baited him to do it and it worked out.

I hate seeing Sagan lose (really ever) when he is so strong and does so much work, however he wins races for the same reasons he comes in second. He is going to have to continue to operate in much the same way for the foreseeable future because he chose to go with Bora and a comparably weak team who won't be able to support him. I assume it was purely financial and they would let him bring his little posse of friends/teamates. Could you imagine if he had an arsenal like QS or Sky to support him? Would be scary, however I honestly don't think he finds that appealing - seems he, like Contador, takes pride in making the races almost as much as winning them. He likes to float around and try to find ways to win or lose on his own.

Per an earlier post, I think the gap closed by Alaphillipe on the Poggio was the game changer for Kwiat. Great tactic, or maybe he just couldn't get there and was lucky Ala was willing to. Plenty of super strong guys were completely dusted by that move by Sagan, being just a little too far back to hook on. It looked like something Phil Gil might have pulled off in the Ardennes a few years back.

Have to differ on the team support thing. I think he'd love to have a gang like Quick Step or Sky to roll with all day, until which time he deems right to release the fury. But at the same time, I bet he doesn't follow team direction or strategy too well. Anything beyond "ride for Peto" might not sink in.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
Kwiat is clearly back to his old form.

Also back to his old weight. Looks like his physiology functions much better when he's not trying to be a Skeletor GC contender.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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Ron_Burgundy wrote:
On a side note i do wonder if Sagan might try his hand at Fleche Wallonne or Amstel Gold, he clearly has the ability, but can he extend his form for a few more weeks past Roubaix and still race the TDF?

Sagan used to do Amstel instead of Roubaix. I think he was on the podium there in '12 or '13. He could certainly win it now that they don't finish on top of the Cauberg. But I think Fleche would prove a bit much for him.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [flynnzu] [ In reply to ]
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flynnzu wrote:
because he chose to go with Bora and a comparably weak team who won't be able to support him.

That's not quite fair to his team. They're entirely dedicated to supporting him and helped keep the race together until the end-game.

It's true that they can't help him in the finale.

Pretty similar to Cancellara the past few years.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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Ron_Burgundy wrote:
After watching the final 20k of MSR again it was interesting to see how Kiwat actually could not close down the gap, Alaphillippe had to close it down after Kiwat failed to get on Sagan's wheel. Quite interesting as well that GVA could not follow.

Now we are on to DDV, a semi-classic, some definite climbing, but not at the same level as races to come, who do you have for the podium? It seems a lot of the favorites tend to sit in during this race, possibly still recovering from MSR and saving some for the following weekend. I think we will see a small group get away on the final climb at 10k to go, possibly Sep/Stybar getting on the podium. Not sure if Sagan will seriously race DDV, he will probably want to cruise and prepare for E3 then GW two days later.

On a side note i do wonder if Sagan might try his hand at Fleche Wallonne or Amstel Gold, he clearly has the ability, but can he extend his form for a few more weeks past Roubaix and still race the TDF?

Think of the smaller teams and B+ level racers. Fabio Felline, Van Keirsbruck, Vliegen, Küng, and Benoot could all do well here, as would some lieutenant from Quickstep.

McNulty wrote:
Have to differ on the team support thing. I think he'd love to have a gang like Quick Step or Sky to roll with all day, until which time he deems right to release the fury. But at the same time, I bet he doesn't follow team direction or strategy too well. Anything beyond "ride for Peto" might not sink in.
one perhaps may not want too many chefs in the kitchen anyway

Watown wrote:
Ron_Burgundy wrote:
On a side note i do wonder if Sagan might try his hand at Fleche Wallonne or Amstel Gold, he clearly has the ability, but can he extend his form for a few more weeks past Roubaix and still race the TDF?


Sagan used to do Amstel instead of Roubaix. I think he was on the podium there in '12 or '13. He could certainly win it now that they don't finish on top of the Cauberg. But I think Fleche would prove a bit much for him.

I think he did one Amstel in 2012, when he got 2nd. The new course would certainly suit him as it would encourage attacks as opposed to a massive charge up the Cauberg followed by a smaller bunch sprint to the line
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [flynnzu] [ In reply to ]
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flynnzu wrote:
If you read and believe KW's post race comments, he intentionally let that gap develop betting Sagan would see it and start his sprint. Taking those comments into consideration along with
how Sagan stalled at the end, I think it's pretty hard to argue he didn't sprint a bit early. KW baited him to do it and it worked out.


Looking at pictures of the photo finish, it looks like Sagan unshipped his chain a little bit. Not sure if that is because of the bike throw, or that was the reason why he lost to Kwiat by half a foot.
https://cdn-cyclingtips.pressidium.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Kramon_MilanoSanremo2017_BT_1236.jpg

Either way, awesome last 20 km. I think no one had the legs to follow thank to Dumoulin, who was really drilling it on the Cipressa and Poggio. That seemed to burn the legs off the all but a select few of the attackers.

Onwards to DDV and the "real" start to the cobbled classics tho. Going for Degenkolb, Vanmarcke and Naesen for my podium picks, with the winning move going on the Kwaremont + Paterberg combo. Nokereberg doesn't seem to be hard/long enough to cause damage to the peloton. Might be a little optimistic on Sep tho. Seemed to have picked up a knock and Strade Bianchi and missed MSR. Hope he's back on the mend tho in time for RVV and PR. Would love to see him finally land that big classic win.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [crocked_knee] [ In reply to ]
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Hey y'all.. I noticed a hole in my schedule and just booked a flight to Brussels next week..staying in Ghent, and going to spectate the Tour of Flanders.
Anyone ever been and have any suggestions? I'm going solo. Bummed that the sportive is sold out on saturday.


Anyways... for DDV:

1.Bling
2. Sam Bennett
3. Gilbert

wildcards:
Coquard (will let the wildcard committee decide if this qualifies)
Drucker
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [daveTDF] [ In reply to ]
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don't let the wildcard police keep you down; pick whomever you like :)
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [daveTDF] [ In reply to ]
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dude, awesome. so jealous.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [daveTDF] [ In reply to ]
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daveTDF wrote:
:
Coquard (will let the wildcard committee decide if this qualifies)

That is acceptable.


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Re: *Spoilers* 2017 Spring Classics thread *Spoilers* [daveTDF] [ In reply to ]
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daveTDF wrote:
Hey y'all.. I noticed a hole in my schedule and just booked a flight to Brussels next week..staying in Ghent, and going to spectate the Tour of Flanders.
Anyone ever been and have any suggestions? I'm going solo. Bummed that the sportive is sold out on saturday.

ride....drink beer......repeat...the Kopp......truly nuts
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