He might be the smartest sprinter at the moment, Kristoff having flashbacks of worlds.

Froome is the new Wiggins and Thomas is the new Froome.

Go watch Slaying the Badger, the Sky intra-team ware fare is minor compared to that.

After 3 days in the Alps with how many top sprinters eliminated AND having ridden an PR type stage all in the last 5 days........yeah....I'll give them a pass today.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Agree with you re Quintana, great palmares and deserves more respect. I think it is just disappointing/frustrating that this is a guy who aged 23 was riding away from everybody on the climbs, and now at 28 when he should be in his prime he can barely hang on to the group, let alone put in a meaningful attack. I'm sure he's as frustrated as we are.

I think you've got the Froome/Thomas situation completely wrong. Froome hasn't spoken much at all because he's not in yellow so doesn't have to give press conferences, but what little he says has been gracious e.g. From this article https://www.theguardian.com/...mmate-geraint-thomas


Every interview with Thomas that I've seen he's talked about "Froomey", which is an affectionate nickname and not at all the same as coldly calling him by his surname. Maybe it's a cultural difference - it's pretty common in UK for sportsmen to refer to their team-mates using a nickname derived from their surname. At one point our entire cricket team had the "-y" treatment - Vaughany, Belly, Broady, Straussy, etc.

Seems to me the Sky team spirit is pretty good. They've got riders who could be leaders on other teams who are prepared to selflessly bury themselves for their leader. That speaks volumes, and compares extremely well to the politics we see on other teams. Thomas and Froome have been team mates for 7-8 years and I've never heard a single bad word from either of them about each other, or from anybody else in the Sky camp for that matter. With the exception of Wiggins who clearly has a chip on his shoulder, ex-Sky riders all seem to stay on pretty good terms as well - a lot of them are friends with Porte, and Thomas spoke about being sorry that he had take the stage win from Nieve who is a good friend. Boassen Hagen was given a Sky bike the other day when he was stranded and his own team couldn't get to him.

As to what is happening on the road, that's their decision and they all seem happy with it. If Froome is still the team leader and they're all working for him, then it's his responsibility to repay that faith and get the win. Seems to me that right now they're simply delivering both of them to the ends of the stage and then letting it play out. And it's not as if Froome himself hasn't been in Thomas'position - he would almost certainly have won the Vuelta in 2011 if he hadn't had to do domestique duties for Wiggins while wearing red, and it would certainly have been interesting to see how much time he could have taken out of Wiggins in 2012 if he'd been let off the leash. The Sky approach is to throw everything behind one leader, everybody knows the score, and you can't say it hasn't worked pretty well for them.

The Sky approach is to throw everything behind one leader, everybody knows the score, and you can't say it hasn't worked pretty well for them.

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But they've never been in THIS position, where the domestique is in yellow and building momentum and the "leader" is the one in the pinch, *so far* (if the goal really was to wait til week 3 ok fair enough). In years past even though the domestiques have been in better form, it's "team orders" through and through.....so Froome had to wait for Wiggins, he couldn't ride off and "attack" his teammate; and also Wiggins was always in yellow, so sportingly it made sense as well. So in that aspect, if we are simply saying, it's a 3 week bike race and we're going to let this go on until the 9th hour when then the things properly work out. Which maybe it does, and maybe it doesn't.

So in that aspect, the script is flipped. The guy that needs to be in yellow isn't and he's not "shown" form to showcase the "leader" role. Yes I get Froomey is the "leader".

ETA: I've never seen a position where the leader is the one that hasn't been able to attack, and the better on form athlete is the one not allowed to be the protected rider, but is in fact in yellow, more than half way through the Tour. This isn't day 4, winning the jersey because you TTT'd well. We are half way through the select mountains where the race plays out, and the leadership is still being "questioned". Or atleast put in a position to question it with how the race is unfolding.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

i hate to be the cheerios pisser inner, but i predict this is all going to turn ugly in the next few days. froome keeps riding in a way that would have any other yellow jersey wearer in every tour in my lifetime mad as hell. thomas is remarkably sanguine about it. good for him. but now we're entering double jeopardy, where the scores can really change.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

In the 2011 Vuelta Froome was in red after stage 10 having ridden for Wiggins in the early stages and then beaten him on the ITT. Rode as domestique again on stage 11, closed down a number of attacks and due to those efforts he got dropped from the group, lost time and the red jersey. Red not yellow, but still a GT (and at that point neither Sky nor GB had ever won one) and still a race leader working as domestique well into the second week of the race.

Froome has 6 GT wins and a further 4 second places. Thomas has never finished top 10 in a GT, has always had a bad day and always faded in the 3rd week. Maybe this time is different, and I'm sure they'll protect him as much as possible, but there is simply no way that Froome will or should be asked to work for Thomas unless or until he has a bad day himself and is out of contention. At which point I have no doubt he'd work his arse off for his friend and team mate.

And I'm not sure why you're implying that Thomas somehow isn't being protected or isn't allowed to attack. He's won 2 stages, so he's clearly allowed to attack. And while I haven't watched every minute of racing I've seen nearly all the stage finishes and to date I haven't seen Thomas having to work for Froome, I've seen Bernal or Kwiatkowski deliver both of them to the end game where they can let it play out.

Maybe, we'll see. But to date everybody in the Sky camp seems eminently relaxed about it, all the speculation and shit-stirring is coming from journalists and commentators outside the team. This is nothing like Lemond-Hinault, or Armstrong-Contador, or even Wiggins-Froome, which was mostly played out on social media by the wives and girlfriends rather than on the road.

My point was, GT and Sky has done zero to show that he is riding for Froome and this idea that Sky has 1 leader. That was very evident when GT didn't attack 1st yesturday. Curious that it was Froome to attack 1st and GT sat on wheels. If GT truly is an domestique for Froome behind the "1 leader" idea, GT would have never been allowed to sit in on wheels. He would have been the one to initially attack and Froome sit in and tell the other GC guys "your tour victory is riding away, what are you going to do about it".

Now I should add, that GT and Froome dont' have to do anything but sit in on the sky train until the final 2 are left...then the "leadership" becomes in question. But it's been very obvious in how the tactics and race has unfolded that GT has been given "freedom" over domestique roles.

ETA: Which is why I find it interesting that at this point in the race the guy that's clearly in better form *so far* and that the "leader" is still in "wait and see" mode, that said situation that has the 1 GC guy to win both big boy mt stages is still in limbo....that's how much strength Sky has and faith in Froome...that they are good with the "leadership" idea being muddied because everyone in the Sky camp behind close doors still knows it's all in on Froome.....until.....it's too late?!?! To be continued in a week.......

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I actually don't mind the whole Sky train all that much. I mean...yeah I guess it's boring in more than one way...but it's also a display of dominance and imposing your will on someone(s).

Anyway...I do think that trouble is brewing as well. Froome will continue to attack and hope it sticks, and I think with the only 8 team members...and only 6 acting as domestiques...we're going to see the Sky train pulling off sooner and sooner which will expose the GC racing well before the top of the next mountain stages. That should make it a little less boring. Bernal did a freak effort yesterday. Basically setting tempo and shutting down attacks for 8 km. But it seemed Sky had him back off on stage 11 to save himself specifically to be the last man on Alpe d'Huez. I'm not sure if Sky and Bernal can continue to do that in the Pyrenees. If Bernal had fadded when Bardet made his first move...who chases? Thomas? Froome? Do they both look at Dumoulin and let the gap open up?

I still say the ultimate Sky screw yourself option is still in play...where Froome attacks so much and blows himself while Dumoulin puts in a chase and drops Thomas on a bad day. Sky would be much better off if Froome was in yellow and Thomas was just setting tempo so that Froome doesn't need to take such risky long range attacks. We know that Froome isn't going to work for Thomas at all until the math says it's impossible for him to take yellow.

As for Thomas...this is what he signed up for. He resigned with Sky last summer for 2018 full knowing this was his job. He could have left for another team last year and been the undisputed and protected GC rider for another team. He chose not to.

Your last point is what I don't get. Maybe Thomas didn't ask if Froome was going to ride every gt consecutively until retirement. Or Froomey said one thing and changed his mind--he's now seemingly aiming for quadruple--leaving Thomas out of being an outright leader. Whatever the case, Thomas has the goods to lead a GT but is running out of years.

All that aside, I think Sky is one stage away from the rubber hitting the road. If Bernal pulled off with 10k to go yesterday it could have ended very differently. As it went they could take turns attacking, with neither having to take up domestique duty. The only time I wondered about it was when Froomey jumped Martin and rode across. Obviously the right tactical move when nobody could follow, but wonder if he'd have sat up otherwise.

I think the Tour should have 1 less rider per team, and maybe 1 less team. That would make it safer, I think. Plus the riders might spread out more among the teams so any single team could not dominate. Or salary cap/ WT points cap per team per race. So you can still have a killer team, but you can't bring them all to the same race.

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Brian

UCI reduced GT teams to 8 riders this year.

i don't mind froome taking a flyer. i mind GT taking a flyer and froome chasing him down, hauling dumoulin with him. we had a stage, couple of days ago, where froome did that, and he did eventually ride some guy (dumoulin? don't remember) off his wheel. but if whomever that was didn't cooperate and drop himself, you think froome would've sat up?

we have a TT coming. yes, GT's good in the TT. but dumoulin's better. if the net result of froome's work is for dumoulin to remain close enough to take the yellow during the TT, that's not going to end well. we have some really interesting, short stages rather than your typical week of gruelathons, where everybody's so exhausted nobody attacks. i'll be surprised if the two sky leaders remain brothers of different mothers thru to the end.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Apparently Froome's plan was built around riding into top form in week 3. In which case the fact that he's outclimbing everybody except Thomas and Dumoulin now, means he could be scarily dominant in the Pyrenees. The finish tomorrow could be interesting, short and steep, which doesn't normally suit Froome. Could see him losing a few more seconds.

I'd imagine Sky is thanking their lucky stars that Eganski Bernal was able to do what he did yesterday. I'd also imagine they're hoping, deep down in places they don't talk about at parties, that this will sort itself out on the road.

Sky's leader (whoever that may be) would've undoubtedly benefited from the work of Sky's super-domestique (whoever that may be) after Bernal pulled off yesterday. Instead they slowed down and looked at one another. Not good.

On Stage 10, Froome shut down every attack launched to catch Thomas then only after everyone else was dead, he bridged and I don't think he took anyone with him across to Tom D. GT attacked just before Froome joined TD then Froome rode with TD - he tried to drop him, but TD nipped him at the line. I don't think he did much to "pull" TD to GT.

Maybe Froome is not as sharp as usual, but everyone said the same thing last year when he lost a few seconds on one of the steep finishes. They said the same thing all Giro until he came into form in the last week and crushed everyone including TD. That may not happen here, but I think his palmares justify keeping him in as the leader. GT is tough as nails and a great cyclist, but he's missing a few grand tours on his results sheets.

I find it funny because GT seems completely intent that Froome is the leader. He will ride his ass off but if push comes to shove he will work for Froome. It's everyone else that has a problem with it. That could all change if Froome pulls a Yates/Chavez/Yates (name your favorite MichelinScott GC contender) and loses 20 minutes, but until then it's still under a 2 minute gap.

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"It's good enough for who it's for" - Grandpa Wayne

Agree. Once Bernal pulled off it was game on. Sky is lucky that Bardet had chosen to burn a few matches with an attack while Bernal was still able to hold his shit together...which I'm still super impressed with. Had Bardet waited till Bernal popped off...things could have gotten really interesting.

I think Sky may suffer from only having 8 guys and each guy is expected to take a longer turn at the front. If Bernal (or whoever it is for Sky as the last man before Thomas and Froome) pulls off with 11 km to go in the Pyrenees...shit is going to go down.

I'm pretty excited about the remaining stages considering Nibali and Uran are out...and Quintana is not looking good. We are getting to see very different story lines than we have seen in previous GTs with Froome. First with his comeback in the Giro, and now with this situation with Thomas in the TdF. Again...I get how some people feel like it's boring...but we are not watching the same script over and over again this year. ETA: Except for Sagan...the dude is so bad ass.

ETA: Except for Sagan...the dude is so bad ass.


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Lance's impression of Sagan, "I just want to paaartee" in that Slovakian accent is pretty funny on the podcasts.

ETA: Lance should do an entire podcast as "Sagan" and "boulder dude".

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

#metoo. I think Froome blows this thing up, Dumoulin hangs on for 2nd, and GT wakes up.

At this point for GT, it is in his best interest not to take long range flyers given his current lead. His best plan to retain yellow and be a good teammate is to let Froome take all the flyers and sit on TD's steady wheel and make him do all the work...then pounce on him late just like he did on stage 11 to gain 5-15 seconds. If Froome somehow creates a big enough gap and overtakes him in the mountains or gets close enough to overtake him in the TT...then it is what it is.

But Thomas going on the attack while Froome is still riding strong in the group (strong enough to drag others up to him) simply does not make sense so long as he maintains this gap over Dumoulin (which I feel is enough to hold off in the TT). It would be exposing himself to unnecessary risk...unless of course he just simply is stronger than everyone else in week 3. I suppose it's possible given Froome and Dumoulin may fade with the Giro in their legs.

I'm hoping for drama. Froome blows the whole thing up on stage 17...and in turn puts Dumoulin on the ropes while Bardet lays low and Thomas loses some time. Then Bardet goes on a suicidal attack on Stage 19 once Froome, GT, and Dumoulin are dead tired and Sky's train is nowhere to be found and takes yellow. Then it's a complete free for all in the TT.

One can dream anyway...

What is *Thomas* doing on a flyer? Since he isn't the team leader, why is he riding for himself? Froome is Sky's guy. Backing Thomas *instead* of Froome would be plain silly at this point. Thomas is riding well but doesn't have the palmares. Remember Yates from the Giro.

So... Froome rides in a way that maximizes his chances. Always. Pretty sure that's the team's stance on the issue. Letting Thomas do his thing adds some excitement, and keeps the competition guessing. And who knows, he might get lucky and win. But Froome is plan A.

hey. maybe i'm wrong. maybe these guys are going to french kiss all the way to paris.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

??? What you were mistaken about was believing that Froome should go out of his way to do anything for Thomas. Neither Sky nor Froome has that attitude. Currently they are competing against each other. It's "game on" until it isn't anymore. I expect Thomas to pop before long, but anything could happen.