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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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What a finish from G, Sky demonstrated exceptional acumen, Froome looks to be in incredible condition, Dan Martin and TD showing grit at the end. Sky can do the same tomorrow as well, have Froome attack and allow G to cover, isolate the favorites, then counter.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Great ride by TD but all he did was gain on the 3rd podium spot. Maybe that's his goal, but otherwise it makes Sky's job much easier to have Bardet, Quintana and Nibali all shipping another minute. Maybe GT and Froome will start racing each other to spice things up.

Otherwise, when does the Vuelta start?
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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This is looking like a Sky 1-2 already. Not sure what anybody else can do, they're looking like the strongest riders in the race and they've got a train of domestiques that can deliver them fresh to the finish every time. Attack the train and you burn a load of matches and then get reeled in like Valverde did today. But save yourself for the finish and Froome and Thomas can then play tag.

Does make for an interesting dynamic, Froome and Thomas are pretty good mates by all accounts. If Thomas fades and Froome takes yellow naturally there's no issues, but if things stay as they are then 1'24" is a big gap to close on the TT, so does Froome attack his team-mate at some point?
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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I think they will do the 1-2 attack tomorrow to further distance TD and tomorrow Froome will take the lead or at least get close enough to Thomas to ensure he takes over in the TT. TD looked very strong today, he is still dangerous.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
Great ride by TD but all he did was gain on the 3rd podium spot. Maybe that's his goal, but otherwise it makes Sky's job much easier to have Bardet, Quintana and Nibali all shipping another minute. Maybe GT and Froome will start racing each other to spice things up.

Otherwise, when does the Vuelta start?

indeed; the tour has gotten awfully boring... at least Worlds will be interesting
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [Ron_Burgundy] [ In reply to ]
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Ron_Burgundy wrote:
I think they will do the 1-2 attack tomorrow to further distance TD and tomorrow Froome will take the lead or at least get close enough to Thomas to ensure he takes over in the TT. TD looked very strong today, he is still dangerous.

I think that if Sky management can "pick the winner" between the two, they will make sure Froome wins it. They want to have a 5X tour winner and a Giro Tour double on their team resume as opposed to a feel good win for a strong domestique. I'm sure the sponsors would like that as well.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Normally I am a huge TDF critic and 100% with you on when does the Vuelta start. I am actually enjoying the TDF this year, I think it has to do with so many contenders being in the race this year. Especially Tom D being in the mix. I have become a huge Tom D fan because of his Giro appearances and his honestly in interviews.

I am also enjoying NBC sports coverage this year, not so much Phil/Paul, but I like the crew after the race and Steve Schlanger/Steve Porino on the motorcycle. Adds a cool element.

I wish I knew I could login onto my Xfinity on any computer and watch live TV. I dont know why it took me so long to discover this. Its nice having the NBC Sports feed at work and no shady ads to get a Eurosport feed.

I know we are seeing the Sky parade, but I am still hopeful for a few surprises. I know Nibali comes into form in week 3.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
Carl Spackler wrote:
Great ride by TD but all he did was gain on the 3rd podium spot. Maybe that's his goal, but otherwise it makes Sky's job much easier to have Bardet, Quintana and Nibali all shipping another minute. Maybe GT and Froome will start racing each other to spice things up.

Otherwise, when does the Vuelta start?


indeed; the tour has gotten awfully boring... at least Worlds will be interesting

Not sure you can call today boring, the end result of Sky being 1-2 in the GC doesn't bode well for the rest of the race, but the racing on show today was great. Lots of different dynamics and tactics going on with Barguil showing some KOM form, Nieve trying to hang on for stage win, GC riders having team-mates up the road, and a whole load of attacks on the last climb. Certainly wasn't expecting Dumoulin to attack from there, that's out of character for him and I thought he'd blown it but showed good form to hang on, particularly in pipping Froome to second place.

I think tomorrow could well throw up some surprises, they've got 5000m of elevation to get through and there were a lot of matches burnt today. Thomas is clearly in great form, but that last attack was blistering and it could be he got over-excited by the thought of yellow and went too deep. Sky train also burnt a lot of matches closing down the Valverde/Dumoulin attack, they maybe looked a little vulnerable towards the end with Bernal having to pull off before he did his turn. Question is was anybody holding back a little bit today and will have the legs to attack?
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
indeed; the tour has gotten awfully boring... at least Worlds will be interesting
If you're not a Team Sky and/or Chris Froome fan, the Tour has become likely the least entertaining World Tour race of all to follow. Sky's dominance, Froome's consistency and Movistar's absurd incompetence have all conspired to make the Tour a rote procession around France. Now Sky is 1-2 with guys like Kwiato and Bernal riding as domestiques. Yeah, tune out until the Vuelta.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
TD and Martin are doing nice work for Sky.

As did Merida. Wtf. Can’t these guys huddle up? Lots of guys rode well today. They just need the same kits from here on out. I’m still thinking that Thomas is going to have his jour sans and there will be chinks in the Sky armor. But can’t wait to see Bernal unchained.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not ready to write off this TdF as a snoozer. In fact, I think it's showing a lot of potential. If you make the assumption that Froome, Thomas, and Dumoulin have all showed dominance that will carry over for another 10 stages, then you also make the assumption that Nibali, Quintana, and Bardet all are lazy and completely out of shape despite targeting the tour all year. How is it that Thomas is suddenly a GT stud, and Froome and Dumoulin can come off the Giro and mop the floor with these guys?

I think the racing has just begun, and certain riders have not yet showed their cards. With Thomas extending his lead today over Froome,it's obvious again he won't work for Froome tomorrow. Which in turn means the Sky train will once again be spit out early, opening up ample opportunities for attacks on Alpe d'Huez. The efforts Thomas, Dumoulin, and Froome put in today will cost them something and there are bigger opportunities for time splits tomorrow. Remember how everyone wrote off Froome early in the Giro and said he should just pull the plug and start focusing on the Tour? Then came the Zoncolon and suddenly the guys who looked really strong didn't look so strong anymore.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Bernal needs to get on the 'marginal gains' program ASAP.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Don't forget, Quintana has shown in the past that he knows how to pound it up Alpe d'Huez.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [T3_Beer] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah...when Froome took off with Martin, you saw Quintana look back to see who would chase and slowed up. Quintana is farther down in the GC than Nibali, Roglic, and Bardet, so you could understand why he would suggest they go to the front rather than take the chase up himself. The others probably played the same game against Quintana knowing tomorrow favors him and wanted him to chase and burn up energy. That moment of in fighting opened up the opportunity for Froome (and Martin), and given that it was right around the 4 km mark where it levels off to 5%, none of them wanted to go to the front as whoever sat in would get a significant draft benefit. This was exampled by how much pop Thomas had left after sitting on Dumoulin's wheel and how much pop Froome had working with Martin.

So today was tactical brilliance by Sky (teaming up with guys who would work in Dumoulin and Martin), and a tactical blunder by Nibali, Quintana, Bardet, and Roglic not willing to work with each other. It wasn't so much that Froome, Thomas, Martin and Dumoulin are that much stronger today. Alpe d'Huez is long and steep enough where it will be more a test of fitness than it is a test of who and when you mark.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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During stage 10 coverage, they showed an interview clip with Tejay from before the stage that went something like this:
Interviewer: With Porte having crashed out, what is your plan for the rest of the Tour?
TJVG: ...[blink, blink]...I don't know. [shrug] Maybe we'll try to go in a break or something.


Maybe the question caught him off-guard, but what reporter isn't going to ask some variant of that question? It may be oversimplifying, but this speaks volumes to me as to why he just can't ride the way he used to. He just doesn't have the drive he used to. Add in the team upheaval and I would not at all be surprised if he throws in the towel after this season.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [Koz] [ In reply to ]
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I heard an interview with him a couple weeks ago and he sounded like a petulant superstar, without the star part. Not a fan anymore.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Jason N wrote:

So today was tactical brilliance by Sky (teaming up with guys who would work in Dumoulin and Martin), and a tactical blunder by Nibali, Quintana, Bardet, and Roglic not willing to work with each other. .

There's not that much working together on climbs.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [trail] [ In reply to ]
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so up 1:25 for GT....So just talking tactics out loud, and I guess we all think/know/assume Froome is the leader....but.....with that type of advantage, assume Froome will be allowed to go in the attack and force other GC guys to bring him back and then let GT sit in and counter. So let's just play that out. What if Froome cant get time tomorrow?

When can we really have some "drama" within Sky? Or are we ultimately just waiting for GT's one "bad" day like all the rest of the GC guys are bound to have and it's just simply Froome's "bad" day is so much less than all the other guys, etc.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Jason N wrote:


So today was tactical brilliance by Sky (teaming up with guys who would work in Dumoulin and Martin), and a tactical blunder by Nibali, Quintana, Bardet, and Roglic not willing to work with each other. .


There's not that much working together on climbs.

The last 4.3 km of the stage averaged 4.5%...which for top pros isn't much of a climb. This is roughly the point where Thomas got onto Dumoulin's wheel and Froome and Martin attacked together. Everyone is climbing this last section in the big ring and there is obvious benefit to working together. Thomas took advantage of Dumoulin's want to put time on everyone else behind him and sat in for 3.5 km before attacking for the stage win. Froome took advantage of Martin wanting to climb back up the standings and for the most part let Froome sit on his wheel for 2.5 km before attacking as well. Meanwhile the instant Froome and Martin went, Quintana started snaking side to side across the road looking for someone to lead up the chase just as the gradient flattened out to 4.2%...and nobody came through.

If you let Nibali, Quintana, Bardet, and Roglic have a redo...knowing that Dumoulin is dragging Thomas and Martin is dragging Froome...I think you see them react and work very differently those last 4 km. Hindsight is 20/20, and they don't have all that information when making a split second decision...but it's still a mistake they made.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
so up 1:25 for GT....So just talking tactics out loud, and I guess we all think/know/assume Froome is the leader....but.....with that type of advantage, assume Froome will be allowed to go in the attack and force other GC guys to bring him back and then let GT sit in and counter. So let's just play that out. What if Froome cant get time tomorrow?

When can we really have some "drama" within Sky? Or are we ultimately just waiting for GT's one "bad" day like all the rest of the GC guys are bound to have and it's just simply Froome's "bad" day is so much less than all the other guys, etc.

If I'm Sky's management...I don't really like the situation. You and your sponsors want Froome to win. But you can only tell Thomas to do so much. At a certain point, even if Froome gets away solo...if Thomas is feeling good, I bet he tries to drop the rest of the GC guys and protects yellow for himself just like Froome didn't sit in with the rest of the GC guys today.

So you send Froome on a long range attack tomorrow. If it works and he gets yellow...Thomas has a bad day...great. But what if Froome's long range attack doesn't net him significant time? Do they send Froome out on more long range attacks in the Pyrenees? Rinse/repeat until either Thomas cracks or Froome cracks himself?

The ultimate screw yourself for Sky would be that Froome has to work so hard to wrestle Yellow off of Thomas, and Thomas has to work so hard to retain Yellow, that they both crack on stage 19 and they lose control of the GC completely.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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I think if I'm an opposing team I just roll the dice and go all in on not letting Froome get away. Just ignore Thomas, let him go. If you can keep Froome under wraps, you can force Sky's hand into thinking they have to start supporting Thomas as the leader. Let the internal strife within Sky distract them and then maybe you have a chance at cracking the train next week. Of course, this is a "what the hell, we probably won't beat Sky no matter what we do tactic," but you sure will drive them nuts if you do your best to keep Froome from winning and only focus on that.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [T3_Beer] [ In reply to ]
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T3_Beer wrote:
Don't forget, Quintana has shown in the past that he knows how to pound it up Alpe d'Huez.

I hope that is pink. I am really sick of the Quintana hype. He is just a latch -on and has not had any success with attacking that I can recall. I know I am nothing to write home about, but as a pro you would think that the #1 rider for a team would at least TRY to be aggressive. Vandevelde has shown guts, but all Q does is sit on froomes butt.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [littlefoot] [ In reply to ]
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littlefoot wrote:
T3_Beer wrote:
Don't forget, Quintana has shown in the past that he knows how to pound it up Alpe d'Huez.

I hope that is pink. I am really sick of the Quintana hype. He is just a latch -on and has not had any success with attacking that I can recall. I know I am nothing to write home about, but as a pro you would think that the #1 rider for a team would at least TRY to be aggressive. Vandevelde has shown guts, but all Q does is sit on froomes butt.

Go watch the highlights from the 2015 Alpe d'Huez stage. Quintana dropped Froome and put him on the ropes with the whole tour at stake. If Sky hadn't saved Richie Porte's matches all week for that one stage, Froome might have lost that year.
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [littlefoot] [ In reply to ]
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Oh, and Vandevelde retired a long time ago!
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Re: **2018 TdF** Spoiler Alerts [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
I heard an interview with him a couple weeks ago and he sounded like a petulant superstar, without the star part. Not a fan anymore.

Yeah. I'm a homer for him as he's 'Merican and a Bozeman boy but he's also kind of a moody bitch. Or maybe just a space shot. He's never been a scintillating interview. When guys get to the World Tour and get their asses handed to them, they all handle it differently. They all show up being the next "Lance" or GT guy as the US press still doesn't get it. Tejay has been a great bike racer and yet apparently still thinks he's more than a super dom at this point. He was a big help to Porte until it all came apart. He could be a role player for someone for a couple more years.

He's gotten a lot out of his career and if he's smart he'll go to EF and have some fun with the guys, be an elder statesman, player coach and race hard and ride for others when asked and cash some more checks. But dude has an ego that had him riding as the GC guy at the highest level. So who knows?

Back to the racing. It's not over. The Pyrenees are hard core. Like a monster Appalachia.
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