"I got me a $300 pair of socks. I got a fur sink. Oh, let's see - electric dog polisher. Gasoline-powered turtle neck sweater. And of course I bought some dumb stuff, too..." - Steve Martin

---

__________________________________________________
What a drag it is getting old. -- Stones

That's crazy. Ain't no way a wheelset is worth $5K.

RP

Too bad, I was about to order them then I realized they are only good for riders up to 176 lbs.. so close. Guess I'll just keep my mavics.

Help me out with a technical term from the description of these wheels: "lens-shaped spokes". I remember from college physics all the possible shapes of a lens, and guess what, any shape spoke is lens-shaped. The plain-old spokes on my grandpa's $35 wheelchair are lens-shaped. C'mon guys. For 5k you can do better than that!

for that kind of dough, them wheels better have dimples.

I think ADAs are better. It makes more sense to me to spend this much $$$ on a wheelset (which wil make you faster) than a frameset that won't doing anything to increase your speed (can you say Ottrott).

These wheels, or the aforementioned ADAs, on an aluminum Trek and you have a bike capable of winning the TdF.

---

*****
"In case of flood climb to safety"

Anyone can have a bike capable of winning the TdF - very few people have a motor (and the chemical turbo-charging) capable of winning the TdF.

Larry and Mojojojojojogogogojojojojo --

Agrreed. My point is we seem happily willing to spend huge money on frames, but somewhat less so on wheels. And wheels will make you faster, in most cases (assuming a good fit) a frame won't raise your speed (excepting, of course, TT/Tri etc where aero is also important).

---

*****
"In case of flood climb to safety"

I'm not spending $5K on wheels or a frame. Unless I hit the lottery. If I should hit the lottery and bring in $10 million or so, I'm getting a Pinarello Montello or a Walser. Or both. And I might get these wheels just for kicks. Of course, these wheels would be for training. I'd get a Campy Ghibli rear and Bora front for racing. But then again, I don't play the lottery, so I guess this is a moot discussion . . .

RP

Holy...Sh*t batman.....I actually had a wheel that you named on your "wish list"!! I had a Campy Ghibli rear disc. It was very fast compared to the other discs I've owned. BUT.....I sold it...just like all the other discs and wheels I've owned. I get bored and buy and sell wheels like they grow on trees. hhhmmmmmm.......$5K..............? Maybe later! : )

---

.
.
Paul

I'm sure that there is a tremendous benefit to purchasing these wheels instead of a $1000 pair of Hed Alps. The precious grams saved will probably result in at least a 4 minute time savings in an Oly tri :) At the very least, you can be sure that at almost every race that you go to no one else will be riding the same wheelset as you ... this will either earn jealous admiration or ridicule for being a dumb-ass who spent $5k on wheels that won't even hold a rider over 176 lbs.

Actually the lightweights have been pretty poor in the wind tunnel, those large spokes are probably the culprit. Over most courses the HED Alps or especially a Zipp 404 would be a lot faster. If you do happen to break a lightweight good luck, the wheel is one piece which means a new wheel.

So if you spend $5k on a wheel that will make you slower and is disposable then it really shows that you are the ultimate tri-poser. This could be an excellent marketing angle :)

Dang! I wish I could remember the show I was watching. It was some technology showcase kind of program and they did a 10 minute segment on these wheels and the two German engineers who "invented" them. They never mentioned the price of the wheels. They did say they were extraordinarily expensive. The other thing they said is that, because the spokes are bonded to the rims, a broken spoke means the wheel is completely shot. They said the spokes are extraordinarily strong, but they also said they could be cut rather easily by a sharp object if it caught one of the spoke edges.

I guess they probably have a crash replacement program where they'll send you a new wheel for only $2,000.

Bob C.

The only tunnel test data I have seen was of the ADA wheels, not the Lightweights, and while they weren't Hed 3's, they didn't do "poorly" either.

The Obermayer wheelset is about 2 grand more than a "standard" Lightweight wheelset.

Price is usually determined by what the market will bear, and given all the pro riders who buy these wheels at full pop, I would say that the price is plenty fair - especially when these same riders can get Zipp-Campy-Shimano-Mavic for free (if they aren't actually paid to use them.) EG LA, Cippolini, Ullrich, Riis, Hamilton, all the Manolo Saiz teams...

If you determine price by technology/difficulty of manufacture/etc. - well, the bike frame comparison is certainly apt. ADA/Lightweight wheels are crazy silly to make. Yikes! No wonder they are expensive - I doubt any of the carbon frames on the market are as big a pain in the A** to make...

Hands down, ADAs are the best wheel I have ever used. Haven't used Lightweights, but they are very darn similar. Good aero-ness, extremely lightweight, and also note that these wheels are pretty darn indestructible - I probably would have been better off buying a set of these than the several sets of 404s I have broken...

MH

---

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

kaboom

these wheels are light, aero enough, stiff as hell, and almost indestructible. they are also repairable.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/za/CCY?PAGE=BUY_PRODUCT_STANDARD&PRODUCT.ID=1488&CATEGORY.ID=366&MODE=

at the rate zipp wheels are rising in price, for 1600 you have a wheel that if you crash, goodbye, but the standard lightweights are 3500. practically two sets of 404's. stiffness doesn't matter as much in tris, but the lightweight market is primarily the pro road riders. they have entirely different demand structures. they need different qualities in a wheel. so, while you guys may bash it, they are a great wheel for a different group. also, good enough for 1:30 on LA in a TT. I don't know what zipps crash replacement is, but it ain't cheap, so these wheels are becoming more of an option for roadies.

p.s. I believe ADA was bought out by lightweight. also, the obermeyer wheelset that is 5 g's is pretty much only for uphill I believe.

ADA is it's own company. Obermeyer/Lightweight was bought by Carbon Sports of Deutchland. The whole question is much like chicken and egg: which came first, Obermeyer or ADA? The colonel/King told me in an IM that there is dispute about who came up with these wheels first and that there was name-calling and the like.

ADA are still handmade. I don't know about the Carbon Sports/Lightweight wheels.

---

Call me Big Dick

bunnyman told me once that the carbon frame is the easiest thing you can build in a garage; even a trained ape can do it. He said just about the same thing about disc wheels; but he said that the method in which these wheels are made made his head spin when he had read the articles and picked Cees Beers' brain via e mail. From what I have learned I don't think with the high profit-driven bike parts business that Cees even cares if people know how they're made because nobody wants to put THAT kind of work into anything, let alone a cheap carbon wheel.

---

Call me Big Dick

I think the Alpe Deuz version is uphill only and the obermeyer set is good to go both uphill and Down, but unlike the standard set I think they set a recomended rider weight (80kg i think). The standard set is tough enough for cyclocross but wieghs a little more. They where one of those products like Srm's and more reciently HED time trial bars that riders where willing to get them selves - so they must have a good rep in the pro peleton. I think UK the standard set seems to sell for a similar price to wheels like the Ritchey aero wheels.

If the new 808 wheel is more Aero than a hed 3 what will lance ride next year (if he go's to the TDF)?

When sponsorships, salary, and reputation are on the line, you buy a wheelset like this. Otherwise, something a bit less special is in order.

It was through e mail. I am not even going to attempt to make these in this way as you have asked. Your asking price would be $10,000 for the R&D + material. ;^)