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$1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy?
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Trisports has listed the new Zipp Vuma Chrono crank for sale (currently out of stock). The price is $1290, it is unclear if this includes the Zipp bottom bracket cups. It does not appear to, ceramic cups are an extra $360.00, the plain old steel bearings are $110.00. Yes, the cranks look sweet, well as nice as cranks can look. Shimano tried selling their Dura Ace carbon crank for around this amount and we saw how well that went over, not sure if the product ever made it to market. Granted Zipp is targeting a different customer, however in today's economy is a $1600 plus (crank w/ ceramic bearings) going to sell? Zipp's time savings seem rather ambitious. I know some AG'er will attempt to gain every advantage possible, and now would be a great time to be an athlete sponsored by Zipp. I just don't see Zipp selling many of these, much less making back their investment on something they spent years working on. As a disclaimer I would love to have a set of these cranks, but that is an insane amount of money. With that price, that is in Quarq Cinqo territory, most likely get a lot faster using the Cinqo as well.







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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [stitchboy] [ In reply to ]
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I suspect they will be very successful. Ultimate bling for a new P4 build even though they will probably not work as well as a 7900 crank.Remember that the people who buy these are not really doing it to be a few seconds faster -the cranks just look so cool.Also in this economy it may be these cranks vs a vacation or a new car .I personaaly would rather have a new srm wireless crank which is way more money still (my new car) .
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [stitchboy] [ In reply to ]
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how do you define success? Or more importantly, what number of these need to be sold in order for Zipp to view it as a successful product?

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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [stitchboy] [ In reply to ]
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1500 cranks and bb are so stupidly expensive that I am not sure the current economic climate makes any difference. There are always going to be people with lots of cash and or an irrational "need" for the coolest latest thing. That is what the audience is for this stuff. I am sure that they will sell some. They will not sell any to me.
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [jpflores] [ In reply to ]
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Stitch, to you and me, it is an insane amount of money. To others, it is not. So, I'll bet there is indeed an audience for those cranks.
As you are scratching your head wondering who would buy these, it reminds me of the time I was at Watkins Glen NY to watch my brother do a vintage race weekend with his Porsche 914RS.
I'm wandering around the pit area and come across the Cobra Club. These fellas were racing 427 Cobras wheel to wheel. I said to a guy sitting by his car, tools, spares, etc., "How can you stomach racing such a rare and valuable car? What if you wad it up?" His response, "We can fix 'em." Wow! Now there's some wealthy dudes and if they chose bike racing or tri racing, there's your audience!
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [stitchboy] [ In reply to ]
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i don't think zipp intends this to be a high volume product...it's their top of the line, priced at the very top tier. this is a product that builds their brand image...and hopefully sells more of their cheaper stuff as a result.

i'm not a miser...i've spend $15K in the last 12 months on bike junk. but even to me...that's just dumb. $1500 for a heavy, ugly crank? with no independently verfied aero benefits?!?! you have to dumb as brick to get that thing regardless of your income...well, unless you actually think that thing looks good, in which case i can see someone with money getting it.
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [Chris G] [ In reply to ]
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I think the prices Campy wants for a set of Boras is crazy, or the $5000+ for a set of Lightweight wheels are crazy, yet year after year new models keep coming out. Someone out there is buying into the idea that $5k for wheels is worth it.
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [stitchboy] [ In reply to ]
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Chwck out the price for a relacement large chainring (yes just chainring) on the Dure Ace crankset.............$400+.
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [stitchboy] [ In reply to ]
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One man's mortgage payment is another man's dinner out. With fancy TT framesets going for north of $10,000 I'm not sure that there will be a problem selling these things. Even though this highend stuff seems pretty pricy, it pales in comparison to other 'hobbies'.

This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time. - Fight Club
Industry Brat.
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [stitchboy] [ In reply to ]
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Here is a different way to look at it--- Two or three years ago the economy was going so well that almost anybody could take out a home equity loan and buy a bike that was actually better than the bikes pro cyclists use. People would seriously use $2400 wheelsets and $80 tires for training. Assuming you had a $300K house, you could buy a couple bikes a year and still have a net worth increase just by sitting on your ass and waiting for the housing prices to rise.

Now days, the set of people who can afford to do that is reduced--- Without an increasing stock market and home market, you actually have to have enough disposable income to buy your toys. The average triathlete, with their $140K annual household income but with assets depreciated at least 25%, can't justify buying a pro-level bike.

So, these bikes and super high-end parts will be consumed by actual pros, actual rich dudes, and a few people who have an obsession with having the perfect set of gear and are willing to make real sacrifices for it. Amazing things will still be made for those three groups of people, and Zipp's stuff is so good that they will always have a market, but normal people won't buy it.
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [MarcK] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Here is a different way to look at it--- Two or three years ago the economy was going so well that almost anybody could take out a home equity loan and buy a bike that was actually better than the bikes pro cyclists use. People would seriously use $2400 wheelsets and $80 tires for training. Assuming you had a $300K house, you could buy a couple bikes a year and still have a net worth increase just by sitting on your ass and waiting for the housing prices to rise.

Now days, the set of people who can afford to do that is reduced--- Without an increasing stock market and home market, you actually have to have enough disposable income to buy your toys. The average triathlete, with their $140K annual household income but with assets depreciated at least 25%, can't justify buying a pro-level bike.
....

For the average triathlete who makes $140K plus, there was no need to take out a equity line and buy any of the high end bikes or components on credit. They could just buy it outright. At $140K, your take home pay is over $2400 per week.

In today's economy, if they stopped buying, it is because of the normal reasons people don't buy in a recession.
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [stitchboy] [ In reply to ]
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Well as a retailer I can't tell you we've set the world on fire with these but we do actually have a few sold. Here's a review we wrote:

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/...p_Vuka_Crank09.shtml

One interesting change that has occured in this industry is that, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I think most of our customers lived about the same lifestyle I do; modest house, used car, small mortagage, middle class wage. My one indulgence has been travel. Now our customers tend to have shifted to a demographic two levels above our own. Lots of discretionary income. No more auto workers, all municipal (firefighters, paramedics), health care professionals, information technology, legal industry. Those are the people buying. The previous rank n' file of customership- gone. The remaining industries at the middle class demographic tend to be the municipal workers (police and fire) and education. Many of them are being careful: A Cervelo P1 instead of a P3, a Felt S32 on sale instead of a new B2.

We're in Detroit, I'm exactly one mile from Ford Motor Company World Headquarters. When you drive by there late at night, the lights are on. People are in there working, thinking, planning, changing. The "reset" button has been hit on our economy and many people are affected. Here I sit on a Sunday, when my store is closed, working on web updates. Our web traffic on our website is up 17.3% over same time last year, but our sales are only up 2%. We have added value to the customer experience in an effort to leverage sales by installing a new motion capture fit system in our store.

It's a tough economy to be sure and it has been an awful winter- one of the toughest I can remember based on the weather, the election (a bright spot there though) and the economy.

So, what do you do? Come in early on a Sunday and work. Come up with new ideas to provide tangible services to people who may be interested in a bike, adding value to the purchase. Install a new fit system that provides greater value and better fits for the customers you do have. Move forward. Work harder.

I remember when I was a teenager my Mom, who was a single mother and lived through the depression as a child herself, got a new roof on our house. The roofers came out and put the roof on, cleaned up the yard after themselves, collected their tools and left. The new roof looked nice. We had a nice house when I was growing up because my Mom worked hard. After they left my Mom went out in the yard and started going through the bushes. I thought she may be inspecting them to see if the roofers had inadvertantly damaged them.

She was collecting the few remaining nails they had left behind, including the bent ones. She put them in a bag and brought them in the house. The bent ones she sorted out and we sat down and straightened them. Then she put the nails in a bag and wrote "roofing nails" on the bag and put it oon the bench downstairs. It's probably still there. That was the early 1970's.

Anyway.

One person's tough times are simply another person's opportunity or news headline. The people buying these cranks simply aren't as affected to the degree others are. And they are pretty cool.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
... Our web traffic on our website is up 17.3% over same time last year, but our sales are only up 2%. ....

Good job Tom. Two percent in this tough economy is not bad. Maybe they can have you start to give guest lectures at the Wharton Business School on how to do it right. ;-)
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [Raptor] [ In reply to ]
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That would be a disaster....

If I were doing it right I wouldn't be sitting in a cold office on Sunday writing bike reviews and posting on Slowtwitch. I'd be on my boat in the Bahamas waiting for the season to start.

Oh well. I love doing this.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [MarcK] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
The average triathlete, with their $140K annual household income...

Damn. Behind the curve again...


<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
That would be a disaster....

If I were doing it right I wouldn't be sitting in a cold office on Sunday writing bike reviews and posting on Slowtwitch. I'd be on my boat in the Bahamas writing on Slowtwitch...

There - fixed it for you.


<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [stitchboy] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Stitchboy and All,

I won't be buying the current Zipp crankset.

I would just for looks if it incorporated an SRM crank (although some could use Powertap hub) and the other features I want.

Should be like the new medicine though - evidence driven - what are the savings in watts? If any?

I also will chose Rotor Rings over the beautiful shifting Shimano 7900 with its 3 dimensional cogs (that look like some of them got chewed off in a bad crash).

Now how long before a manufacturer builds my dream crank system?

Super aero, 3 dimensional cog teeth, SRM, Rotor Rings, ceramic bearings - all in one package - and some savings in watts.

Price optional.

Cheers,

Neal

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [Raptor] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
"For the average triathlete who makes $140K plus, there was no need to take out a equity line and buy any of the high end bikes or components on credit. They could just buy it outright."

That demographic wasn't the driving force behind the majority of tri spending. Had the tri market only relied or cashed in based on that demographic's spending it would have never reached that size and we wouldn't have as many brands around. The tri market benefited from funny money as much, if not more so, than any other consumer product market. I've said it two years ago that the tri industry will go through major changes with fewer brands in the future, alot less brands as the luxury bike market is not sustainable. Of course that was wrong to say because triathlon is an ever growing sport...

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"In today's economy, if they stopped buying, it is because of the normal reasons people don't buy in a recession. "
100% disagree. Just wait, within the next 12 months the upper income housing market will be 20% lower than what it is now and with that and other changes in the economy the number of "high paying jobs" will drastically be reduced as a great percentage of those lucrative jobs directly relied on funny money. People in general shouldn't ask what's wrong with the economy today, they should question the state and fundamentals of the economy between 2003-2007.

�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [Khai] [ In reply to ]
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True. You too though too dude!

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [stitchboy] [ In reply to ]
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While I do get the reasons behind this crank and its Vuma Quad sister I don't think either is anywhere near worth it. I had the chance to purchase and install a Vuma Quad crank for a friend andI can say that for the money I was not really impressed too much. Having owned many Zipp products (wheels, frameset, earlier carbon crank) over the years I am still left a little cold. $360 for the ceramic BB cups is just STUPID! Well beyond the cost of the average ceramic BB. In fact for what the crank costs I would like to see the ceramic cups included in the price. Hell you don't even get the standard bearings. Yes they are technically leading edge but though I consider myself quite the bike slut, these bad boys are just too much to justify.
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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nicely said Tom and glad to hear ur sales are up even though it might only be 2%
The website is always great and the reviews are very helpful
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [Raptor] [ In reply to ]
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Dog, 140k ain't squat. Now don't get me wrong, you will live very comfortable with that income, but after mortgage, car payments and saving for retirement and multiple children's college funds that cash flies out the window faster than you make it.

I make money a little bit above that range and even up to November "08 I was planning on splurging on a set of 3t ventus bars, hed stinger wheels, and some lightweight bling from fairwheelbikes. SInce then I've seen my market nose dive. I've had to reduce my employees payroll and even let one person go. Not a very happy situation. I've cut my own salary by 20% just to keep the doors open. My company will be there when this recession ends, but it is a bad, bad time and everyone is feeling the pinch.

2009 will be the year of NO BLING for me and my household. Races will all be local, no new anything for anybody. IF I want to get faster this year I'll have to do it with my legs.

And those crank prices are crazy, and someone will buy them, just not as many as would have in 2000.
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Re: $1300 cranks $360 BB, in today's economy? [rickn] [ In reply to ]
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"Races will all be local, no new anything for anybody. IF I want to get faster this year I'll have to do it with my legs. "

That describes a lot of people I'd suspect. Certainly describes our household. I'm glad my wife won a Kona lottery spot last year. If it was this year, we might have to think a bit harder about going.

As for those cranks, on a cost to performance improvement ratio, hard to justify. I'm sure a few will sell. They never were intended as a high volume item.
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