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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [Erik Clark] [ In reply to ]
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i don't understand why people are so against this, a simple standard for basic swim competency. to me it seems so reasonable, clearly we are in the minority.
They do it for little kids before they can go in the deep end at the pool.
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [triathlete37] [ In reply to ]
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Amen, just a week ago before the beginning of a local sprint/oly race I overheard a guy telling his group, "it's ok if you can't make it you can touch the bottom". I'm thinkn' holy crap you cannot touch it is at least 15' deep! What are these people thinking, I put in many hours in the pool and open water before doing my first race. I had not done any race type swimming in almost 20 years, I spent a whole year getting back to comfort before I raced. It is the sole responsibility of the participant to be ready. The first buoy was only 50 yards from the start, and "many" people were getting pulled from the water. One of the Sgts. I work with was on the Police boat next to the water safety patrol, the response from people was "this is alot different than a pool". No Shit! Its your own fault for not being prepared. You should have to test out before entering a race.
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
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- - What a WEENIE!! i agree i want the bodyguard back!!!!!! LOL

ken
trying to act like a runner
Last edited by: drdivot: Jul 3, 07 21:08
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [drdivot] [ In reply to ]
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- - What a WEENIE!! i agree i want the bodyguard back!!!!!! LOL
ken embracing the suck



LOL. At camp, I am learning to play nicely with the other kids, though.
How is your swimming going?

Cousin Elwood - it was a downstream current that should have helped me. :P

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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my shoulder has been bothering me so other than a 1.5 mile (45 min)open water swim to get ready for my first oly (24 something) i have not been swimming for 6 weeks. kinda miss it but until my run times can get below 9-9.5 min a mile for 10k it is time for run training (yuk)

ken
trying to act like a runner
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [mullinsm] [ In reply to ]
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I think SOME self seeding at IMs would be nice. Put up some signs with expected swim time and ask (at the pre-race meeting) that people honestly try to seed themselves and explain why.

At IMAZ I tried to seed myself and ended up dodging and weaving for the first 15 minutes because so many slow pokes put themselves at the front, as if that was going to make them faster. YEAH! RIGHT!

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [mullinsm] [ In reply to ]
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Haven't heard about this specifically. From hearing a couple of RD's discuss this at a couple of races, they are always concerned about safety and take it really seriously, but one of the key pressures I hear most is from local officials setting a "get off the road time." So, you have to compress the swim waves to get people on the road, so they can get off the road. That has got to be a tough challenge and balance for a RD. Hopefully there can be a good dialogue that can help solve these two variables.

As an aside, I realize there are a limited number of swim cap colors, but I don't think an RD should use black, navy, dark green, etc. as cap colors for AG. Even if RD's have to have duplicate colors I think it makes more sense to have bright caps that are a duplicate that can be easily seen.



I miss you "Sports Night"
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [drdivot] [ In reply to ]
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I hope that your shoulder feels better soon. Do you think it's something wrong in your stroke that's causing it? Does just freestyle hurt, or are you okay with fly/back/breast? (hint hint THERE ARE OTHER STROKES THAN FREESTYLE)

run training isn't "yuk"!

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [Tai] [ In reply to ]
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That beind said waves are great on a shorter swim as it seperates people out but on a longer swim you still end up with later waves swamping earlier waves and although drawing out the time between waves is a decent idea it forces later starters to often face hotter weather and draws out the time needed to complete the race which in some locals can make it a bit harder to get permits.

Just guessing, but I would think having someone die during the previous year's even might make it even harder to get a permit...
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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I would have given you my spot on the line and stayed on your feet has far as possible.

But I didn't qualify to race..

____________________________________________
Imagination is more important than knowledge. Albert Einstein
Last edited by: El Kabong: Jul 5, 07 13:01
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [mullinsm]MuM [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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2000 runners sprinting for the finish line ..... and it would give the pros a chance to pass everyone entered in the race.
Yeah, but with 2000 runners and 4000 of their "closest family members," it might make things difficult for the race photographers.



"Real winners aren't content with yesterday's victories"
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [kblahetka] [ In reply to ]
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Legally, it might actually be a bit riskier for an RD to require a swim test than to do without. If a test is passed, you could argue that there's an implication that the RD/race management has somehow certified that the athlete is competent enough to complete the course, whether it's actually true or not. (race morning in the middle of an agressive crowd with waves and currents is a whole different keetle of fish than being asked to swim a distance in calm waters while solo)

No test- you could argue that you're shifting the responsibility of competence entirely onto the competitor.

And is the swim actually the most dangerous part of the race? For all that we sometimes locally get some very rough swim conditions, I'd bet if you went back and counted the number of endurance race deaths or serious injuries, the numbers would come up:

1. heart attack, normally during run (my husband had a guy die right in front of him at a local 5K race a couple years back)
2. bike crash- hit by car
3. nutrition/hydration failure
4. bike crash-other
5. swim incident not related to undiagnosed previous medical condition
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [FLA Jill] [ In reply to ]
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I doubt that it is any riskier legally to give a test, in fact probably the opposite. It shows that the RD was doing everything prior to the race, to insure no weekend warriors..We have a two mile swim here in Hermosa beach, and it requires that everyone, and I mean everyone, does a qualifying swim..And it is not easy, you actually have to swim decent freestyle. If you finish the race you get a pass to next years race, but as soon as you miss a year, back to the requal...... It was implemented because of an earlier drowning of a super marginal swimmer, who actually had a personal paddler. In fact, the race required personal paddlers for every swimmer in the old days, but obviously didn't stop the drowning....So the qualifying process began, and to this day it is one of the most competitive ocean swims I've ever done. Around 700 really competent swimmers, one mass start, and most the straglers are just older folks......
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [FLA Jill] [ In reply to ]
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In the past, Mrs. T's required a swim test for at least the Olympic. It was one of my first triathlons and I had to have a lifeguard sign a slip of paper stating that I could swim 1500m without stopping. This was in 2002.
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [cdanrun] [ In reply to ]
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These posts of "speculation" can get pretty whacky, no?

What I'm reading from all of this is that are two many athletes in the race: therefore, the races are simply too easy.

Triathlons in the past were traditionally an extreme test of one's mettle. Remember when NO ONE, EVER, wore a wetsuit?

"Oh, there's a triathlon today? Cool, - I'll jump in."

Now the sponsors, the race organizers, and the equipment manufacturers, get to make tons and tons of money to fill up the water and roads and trails with tons of people clamoring all over each other to get on some obscure cable TV channel.

More and more people enter the sport every month, and more and more money gets made. Employing qualifying times, limiting the number of competitors, or making the race harder and/or more dangerous are things that take money out of the pockets of people who are demanding that that money not only keeps coming in, but keeps coming in at higher and higher rates.

Uninfluential Slowtwitch BOPers are really going to influence some sort of change? Just be quiet and give away your money.
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [Erik Clark] [ In reply to ]
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I agree. Times have changed from when triathlon was a sport for few to one for the masses. For the safety of the masses who are not prepared as they should be, I think the guidelines have to adapt. I like the Red Cross idea for beginners.

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [last tri in 83] [ In reply to ]
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For at least the last two years, the Jekyll Island, Ga Oly tri has done a time trial type start for the swim. When you register the first time they ask for your expected swim time. Then they assign race numbers based on that. They start two swimmers every 5 seconds in number order.

I really like it because I am out there with evenly matched swimmers and nobody is all bunched up.

I'm not sure, but we suspect that if you enter the next year, they use your prior finish time instead of what you wrote down on the registration.

How this could be made to work with a huge start, I don't know. With 150 swimmers, it took right at 6 minutes to get everyone into the water. This was with one starting gate and two starting at a time. There was no division made for age or gender or size.

It also did a good job spacing out the rest of the race all the way through the run.
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [El Kabong] [ In reply to ]
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Why have I never seen your psudonym before. You've been on for 3+ years.
El Kabong instantly brought me back to afternoon cartoon in the late 50s early 60s.
What a crack up. Is there a Baba Louey (sp?) there with you?

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [docfuel] [ In reply to ]
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Because supper hero’s only appear during a crises.. Has for Baba Louey, he retired to south Florida few yrs ago
haven’t heard from him since..




____________________________________________
Imagination is more important than knowledge. Albert Einstein
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [El Kabong] [ In reply to ]
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Tell him 'Hi!'
I'm sure he'll remember me (as I'm sure you do). I saw him at least once a week for years.

_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [snotrocket] [ In reply to ]
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Dude, G-Dub rocked. I pretty much got kicked out of there for partying too hard. I was drunk about 4-5 nights a week, leaving me almost enough time to try to hang onto speed workouts with the XC team.
From 1996-1998 I was definetly a wannabe VAn Wilder. Sucks to get old.
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [rickn] [ In reply to ]
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We were there around the same time. I was there from 95-99. I was on the volleyball team. Would I have known you? I don't remember a lot of hard partying XC runners but it sounds like you might have been in a different partying league, I only partied in the off-season and then only on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights (and usually only 2 of the 3 nights).
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [last tri in 83] [ In reply to ]
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I agree. Times have changed from when triathlon was a sport for few to one for the masses. For the safety of the masses who are not prepared as they should be, I think the guidelines have to adapt. I like the Red Cross idea for beginners.

Can you help me out with preparing to get kicked in the face, I'm not sure how to train for that. I don't see that in any of the Red Cross class descriptions. Do I train differently for freestyle vs breast stroke kicks? I suppose I can incorporate it in group swims while I'm training to have some 250 lb guy swim over me.
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [dbh1] [ In reply to ]
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you are missing the point. there would be no breast stokers to kick you in the face if people were competent to swim the required distance.

why are you so afraid a some basic requirements to get in the water.



----------------------------------------------------
Striving to have sex more than 66 times per year
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Re: "more stringent swim rules" coming soon? [dbh1] [ In reply to ]
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You have nothing to fear as you sound like a fantastic swimmer.

_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man
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