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"big" pros
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Slow day at work today. Most of it spent thinking about "big" but not overly tall top pro triathletes, i.e., between 5'10'' and 6'0'' and over 170lbs. The only guy I can think of is Zack who is 5'11'' and races at 172lbs. Does anyone else come to mind? Height and weight stats are hard to come by on the web. I am 5'11'' and currently 176lbs and need some more role models...
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James Bonney* [johnthesavage] [ In reply to ]
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*

--------------
Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks
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Re: "big" pros [johnthesavage] [ In reply to ]
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James is tall, but pretty lean.

Michael Lovato is also pretty tall, but lean as well.

Bryan Rhodes seems to be pretty stout, but I don't know height or weight.

I think that Jamie Cleveland is in the 5'11" 165 or so range?


Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |
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Re: "big" pros [johnthesavage] [ In reply to ]
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all those guys are tall & lean. guess i should have known there are not too many pros out there who are average size and maybe have a bit of a gut.
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Re: "big" pros [-Tex] [ In reply to ]
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Jason Shortis definitely

Spencer Smith (although he got leaner)

Eduardo Sturla (but he is tall too)

Chris Hill (nah...just kidding)
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Re: "big" pros [johnthesavage] [ In reply to ]
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Garrett McFadyen won IMC last year at over 6' tall and close to 190lbs.
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Re: "big" pros [johnthesavage] [ In reply to ]
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Peter Reid, Olivier Bernhard, Cam Widoff, Chris McCormack are all about 6'1' to 6'3". Stefan Riesen is 5'10" [178cm], but seems taller.



George Hincapie is 6'3", Axel Merckx is ~6'4" [Eddy is ~6'].



I'm ~6'3.5" so ... I have to have tall role models also.
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Re: "big" pros [johnthesavage] [ In reply to ]
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I'm curious about Zack. It's hard to tell what someone weighs, but I did a masters' swim workout last summer that he attended. Standing on the pool deck, I'm pretty sure I was taller than him -- I'm a certified 5' 10.5".

And, he might weigh 176, but again, he sure looked leaner than I expected him to from photos. Powerful looking to be sure, but very lean with no extra muscle apparent. I would have guessed in the mid 160's -- but it's hard to tell.
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Re: "big" pros [Julian] [ In reply to ]
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Jurgen is pretty lean this year. I'd venture to guess that only Garrett McF is over the original poster's 170 pound number. Yeah, there are quite a few tall guys, but they are all pretty lean, especially IM guys. There may be a few ITU types tipping the scales at +170 (Doug Friman) (HI MOM!!).

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: "big" pros [johnthesavage] [ In reply to ]
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Peter Kropko is built like a fire plug, has a gut, and can run like a stiped-ass ape.

"What's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded."
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Re: "big" pros [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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I trained with Garrett this summer and he is definitely the biggest pro out there who can run a 2:50 marathon..........I think I remember him saying around 180...........he's 6 foot 2 at least. Peter Sandvang is a big guy as well.
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Re: "big" pros [canwi] [ In reply to ]
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I think Paul Huddle fit that mold years ago

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta Twitter Aero testing late May, PM for details

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Re: "big" pros [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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One more data point for you...

IMNZ 2003, I was 173lbs at rego -- that was too heavy for me (slight toast addiction in the two weeks leading into the race)

IMC 2003, I was 159lbs at rego -- after carboloading (see my tips page for my protocol), when I woke up on race morning, I was closer to 165lbs -- standing on the start line, I bet I was 168lbs -- yep a 7-9 lb swing of water, glycogen and race morning breakfast.

I expect that I'll probably continue to get lighter as my body changes from the endurance training. If you search "Stillman Horwill" on google then you'll find an interesting article about body composition. I think that most elite male long course triathletes will tend to be about 10% under Stillman when in race shape -- that number comes up a lot when I plug data in for friends and clients. If you are more than that then you'll tend to perform best in cooler, flatter races. Paper clip people seem to race well in the heat -- so I expect that some of the taller athletes that race really well in Kona would be more than 10% under Stillman -- I've no idea what Peter weights but he strikes me as closer to 15% than 10% under. 15% for a 6-3 athlete would be about 164 lbs.

I have been doing some Kona research -- an Outside article on Mark Allen (1990) quotes him at 6', 158 lbs -- that would be 10% under Stillman. Another World Champion that I train with was about 10-11% under Stillman in his prime.

As you can see from my post above, even a lean athlete's weight can really move around. In race week, I could quote a figure from 158 to 168 and be accurate. Also, if I eat a couple of bowls of cereal, say, when I am not training, I can retain several pounds of water. So my lean body mass would be the same within a weight range of 158 all the way up to 173.

I am 6-1. Ultimately, if I can maintain my current training pattern and keep it together on the nutrition front then I expect that my standard training weight will fall to about 158 lbs, which would be 13%. That will likely take 1-3 more years. With that body composition, I think that I would be able to run well in the heat. What I will need to watch is that I can maintain my bike power -- many athletes, particularly female, can sacrifice bike strength in an attempt to get very light.

FWIW, my view is that the "magic number" for an elite IM triathlete is steady-state watts of 275w. Just in case you are wondering, I was about 250w steady-state for IMC 2003.

Back to lurking -- Get Well Soon to Dano,

g
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Re: "big" pros [johnthesavage] [ In reply to ]
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Nordic triathletes are pretty big (and some of them quite speedy also)

Peter Sandvang 194cm - 84kg = 185Lbs and won Lanzarote IM + New Zealand IM, Nice and 3 times ITU world Champ.

Thorbjrn Sindballe - 187cm - 82kg = 180lbs



Regards

Viking ( 188cm, 93kg = 205lbs, but unfortunately not that fast.......)
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Re: "big" pros [Viking] [ In reply to ]
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"If you search "Stillman Horwill" on google then you'll find an interesting article about body composition."
You should look for Frank Horwill instead if I'm not mistaken. Go to the Serpentine website at www.serpentine.org.uk.
If in London on Saturdays meet at Speakers Corner in Hyde Park to run with the Serpies.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta Twitter Aero testing late May, PM for details

Last edited by: desert dude: Nov 21, 03 3:20
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Re: "big" pros [johnthesavage] [ In reply to ]
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Well Im known to not hold back when it comes to eating (sweets!) so Ill put that belly on from time to time... So heres a fat pro for ya!

Im 190 cm (I think 64) and weigh between 82 and 87 kg depending on time of year.

However, Ive still run three times around 2.50 in an IM (best of 2.48).

I think weight is way overrated and strength way underrated when it comes to pro-IM racing. Sure, if you want to run a sub-28 min 10 k I can see the need to be skinny to the point of anorexia but thats only cause youre hammering at the top of your Vo2 and relying on that and not so much on power/strength. For IM, holding 3.55/km is far from any Vo2 max but it sure translates to a decent marathon and thats all about power/strength as far as Im concerned.

Under-weight or the idea of having to be skinny is probably the cause of more sub-par performances, injuries and/or burnouts than anything else. Just because Dave Scott was ripped doesnt mean we all perform at our best looking that way....

Some people dont ever get ripped and while striving toward that illusion theyre just going to compromise recovery and health and end up, yes maybe thin, but weak, pale and unhappy.

Im actually trying to gain weight during winter. Putting om five extra kilos will help me boost my Vo2 capacity as it will add more weight for my body to carry while training as well as garanteeing adequate energy for recovery and immunesystem.

Id rather be a few kilos "overweight" but strong and powerful than a few kilos "underweight" and weak..

/Jonas Colting
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Re: "big" pros [Jonas] [ In reply to ]
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Im actually trying to gain weight during winter. Putting om five extra kilos will help me boost my Vo2 capacity as it will add more weight for my body to carry while training as well as garanteeing adequate energy for recovery and immunesystem.
That is a great and healthy attitude and you may have a point although it does sound like more of an excuse heading into turkey day rather than a bona fide training goal! but i think you are right that being too light can cause just as much problems as being too heavy. Those skinny marathoners have no quads for the bike. But for serious multi-sport performance results over the long haul I wouldn't dismiss the relevance of body composition so quickly. I was a 210lbs rugby player in college 5 years ago - not too high body fat (except in my gut) but all power and no endurance. Now i am 175lbs and heading south. My times and endurance, especially on the run, are improving immensely and my strength on bike is still good. I can see my body changing and I know that the leanness I see will propel me through the course faster and stronger. It also ties into the importance of nutrition/sleep element of training (the fourth pillar in gordo's "going long"). And I look better in a speedo. :)
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Re: "big" pros [Jonas] [ In reply to ]
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I thought I'd flip the discussion around. It seems there is an "ideal size-weight range" of 5-10 to 6'2', 155 - 165 lbs. This seems to be the range that you need to be in to excel for 8+ hours over an Ironman course. No point being a pint size 130 lbs runner type, because you'll be cooked before you even get to the run from the swim and bike "power" sports. In living memory, the only "lightweight' who has been competitive at LC racing was Greg Welch (5'6", 130-140 range if I recal). I think the lightweights can be strong up to half Ironman but that is where it seems to end. Interestingly enough, lightweights such as Andy Hampsten and Roberta Heras have won Grand Tours (Giro and Vuelta respectively), but then again, they rarely race over 6 hours in a day and don't have to run off the bike !

I'm 5'6" 140 lbs, and I keep telling my clydesdale friends who are 6 ft, 190 that we are both 20lbs away from the optimal size for Ironman performance. Then again, within reason, the 6' guy can slim down to 170, but the 5'6" guy is not going to grow 4-6". Of course, you can always put on 20 lbs....
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Re: "big" pros [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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I'm 5'6" 140 lbs, and I keep telling my clydesdale friends who are 6 ft, 190 that we are both 20lbs away from the optimal size for Ironman performance.


Lori Bowden's a fair bit smaller than you, and she's gone under 9 hours. That would win you AG world's. The top AG finisher at IM CA a few years back (Toker) is about your size.

Bike power is a matter of aerobics, not leg mass. My legs are bigger than Lance's, and I bet I can squat more than he can. There's just this one teeny difference between us...aerobics.

I think Jonas makes a good observation about runners. They're not looking for speed at low HRs (like IM'rs); they're going at LT++ all the time. Different thing altogether.

Maybe the reason many successful triathletes are the height they are is because that's the shape of the bell curve in the general population. Their weights are what they are because they are active people that fall into lean body composition.
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Re: "big" pros [johnthesavage] [ In reply to ]
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I will be the first to agree that body composition does indeed have an impact on the result of an Ironman. Of course, if one could have the same power/health/fitness and be 10 pounds lighter, bring it on!

But the problem is that weightloss or the need to feel or be skinny seem in many cases be the goal itself. The thinking seem to be "if I dont get thinner, Im not going to perform"

For me, skinny or not, the weight will not be a goal but a result from just doing the kick-ass training that goes with elite IM-racing and keeping a sound diet. For me, if that brings me to 82 kg or 85 kg, so be it. As long as Im recovering well and feeling strong.

Some people have told me that "dude, you would really see a change if you lost a few kgs" Yeah, Im sure. To the worse.... I think its interesting to see that a breed of people like triathletes that by any means train huge volumes are so focused on weight. For me, Ive found it be a challenge to actually eat enough, not less. I just recently did a universitystudie on energy input/output and I put in some big days and would on those burn well above 10000 calories for the entire day. Even with a diet high in fats from oliveoil, fish, almonds and the sweets and what not, it still is very hard to even come close in matching the output. Not mentioning the fact that youre actually gone all day so theres isnt much time to eat except on the bike....

Just for the record, Ive measured at around 11% bodyfat at this time of year so its not exactly time for Weightwatchers to step in but a far cry from some peoples 4-6%. My goal is to step up to 15% around Christmas as Im always having my best training of the year at that time feeling superior strength. Ive never met a calorie I didnt like!
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Re: "big" pros [Jonas] [ In reply to ]
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  I love this topic because this is my niche. I am 6' and weigh 182lbs race weight and 188-190 offseason. I was measured at 183lbs at 5% bodyfat. That is low bodyfat for a high weight. I sought to chase the goal of losing weight by starving myself and my times did not necessarily increase. Once I stopped looking at the scale, ate until I was full and not when the plate was clean, then all of my times dropped. I think the advantage of having more muscle is less deterioration in the longer events. I am able to maintain strength at a consistent level throughout the race. My top end may not be the fastest, but in the ironman, it is about who slows down the least =).

FIRELUV
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Re: "big" pros [fireluv] [ In reply to ]
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OK - looked at Frank Horwill's stuff; I am 5' 6", and based on that, 10% under puts me at 129 pounds (110+33=143, x .90 = 128.7). Folks, for me, that weight would probably require hospitilization, or at least a guest shot on some tabloid show as skeleton of the week.

I currently weigh 157, with a recently hydrostatically tested body fat of around 16%. My goal is to reduce to 10%. which puts me right about 145. If you do the math, I currently have approximately 132lbs of lean mass. How could Horwill's formula can work for someone like me?? at 130lbs and say 5% body fat, I would have to lose 9lbs of lean muscle (6.5% of my muscle mass) in the process! I just can't believe that would somehow improve my racing...maybe my body type(large bone structure) in general is not disposed to endurance racing (I knew there had to be some excuse for being slow as molasses)
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Re: "big" pros [johnthesavage] [ In reply to ]
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Re: "big" pros [2WheelsGood] [ In reply to ]
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Did I read that correctly?! A marathoner should be running 26 miles a day- every day?! (and then 1x10k at race pace three times a week on top of that). Unfathomable.
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Re: "big" pros [jkatsoudas] [ In reply to ]
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Did I read that correctly?! A marathoner should be running 26 miles a day- every day?! (and then 1x10k at race pace three times a week on top of that). Unfathomable.
It's the "standard" protocol in Japan. And only in Japan, apparently. Even the Kenyans aren't that crazy.
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