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"a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem"
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Article in the NYTimes describing a Phoenix-area dealer in peptides.

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"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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The Russians get a Neflix documentary and an Olympic ban............and we get.......more dope?
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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I was just about to post this. 8000 clients and they have all the names. They mentioned like 5 that got bans.... so sad.

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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Very interesting article, thanks for sharing....also have the Al Jazeera doc linked in the article all set to watch, its going to be an informative morning!
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Yup.

That is why watching or following any pro or college or olympic sports is like following costumed wrestling: a pure fantasy at best, but more realistically a total fraud ...

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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Another reason why the “Ive never failed a drug test” line is meaningless. Sad to see this.

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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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If USADA has really exhausted all their options to hold people accountable, they should just publish the whole list and let the athletic communities shun those athletes.

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Ed O'Malley
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Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the post. Sadly, not surprising.
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Sports is big business, and like any business, we (consumers) get what we reward. If we demand super human feats in sports, there will always be a few that will risk everything to deliver it. In the short term, the athletes are rewarded with sports contracts, endorsements, fame...

Is anyone today really still convinced that pro sports is clean? I guess I would define 'clean' as not taking banned substances or intentionally manipulating the system (i.e. Therapeutic Exemption Use). This of course would rely on the ethics of the athletes, and not justified by "I've never tested positive" statements that we hear all too often from well documented cheats.

This is the reality of sports in general today. More prevalent (%) by athletes who are pro's, and maybe less as armatures, but the genie has been out of the bottle for quite some time.


klehner wrote:
Article in the NYTimes describing a Phoenix-area dealer in peptides.
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
If USADA has really exhausted all their options to hold people accountable, they should just publish the whole list and let the athletic communities shun those athletes.


Yeah, the article said USADA handed down a "raft" of penalties. Hard to say. I checked the sanctioned list searching for a combination of "non-analytical" and "peptides." There are 8 over the past couple of years. All track and weight lifting, except one wrestler.

Sounds low, but impossible to say how many of the "8000" are active athletes under the USADA umbrella vs. just bro gym rats, etc. At least both the article and sanctioned athletes are entirely devoid of endurance athletes!
Last edited by: trail: Mar 26, 18 7:31
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah.... Before I moved to Boulder, I lived in Chelsea in NYC and when you're walking down the street there you probably pass at least 1 to 3 roided up dudes per block. Tons of people using drugs for purely asthetic reasons. But wouldn't they just go for good old fashioned steroids since they do not have to worry about testing? My understanding, which could be completely wrong, is that peptides are used to avoid AAF.

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Ed O'Malley
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Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
Tons of people using drugs for purely asthetic reasons. But wouldn't they just go for good old fashioned steroids since they do not have to worry about testing? My understanding, which could be completely wrong, is that peptides are used to avoid AAF.

I agree about the former. In SoCal I regularly overhear casual conversation about prescription roid and HgH in the gym among non-athletes.

You're probably right, though. On that sanctioned list I could only find a single analytical finding for a peptide, which may suggest that WADA/USADA isn't able to detect them very well. I could understand why they wouldn't want to advertise that.
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
Yeah.... Before I moved to Boulder, I lived in Chelsea in NYC and when you're walking down the street there you probably pass at least 1 to 3 roided up dudes per block. Tons of people using drugs for purely asthetic reasons. But wouldn't they just go for good old fashioned steroids since they do not have to worry about testing? My understanding, which could be completely wrong, is that peptides are used to avoid AAF.

AAF?
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [SH] [ In reply to ]
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SH wrote:
RowToTri wrote:
Yeah.... Before I moved to Boulder, I lived in Chelsea in NYC and when you're walking down the street there you probably pass at least 1 to 3 roided up dudes per block. Tons of people using drugs for purely asthetic reasons. But wouldn't they just go for good old fashioned steroids since they do not have to worry about testing? My understanding, which could be completely wrong, is that peptides are used to avoid AAF.


AAF?

Adverse Analytical Finding (i.e., not a failed drug test). Think biopassport violation, or skipping three drug tests.

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"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [Tifosi01] [ In reply to ]
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Just watched the Al Jazeera investigation. It basically tells the story that we all know but don't want to believe, that drugs are integrated into sports around the globe. Not surprising really.

Tells how drug tests are there to give the illusion that there is 'clean' sport. The athletes 'doctors' just use drugs that will not test positive, typical cat an mouse. Worth watching to understand the time and effort that went into getting the 'story'.

Tifosi01 wrote:
Very interesting article, thanks for sharing....also have the Al Jazeera doc linked in the article all set to watch, its going to be an informative morning!
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [mfrassica] [ In reply to ]
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mfrassica wrote:
Sports is big business, and like any business, we (consumers) get what we reward. If we demand super human feats in sports, there will always be a few that will risk everything to deliver it. In the short term, the athletes are rewarded with sports contracts, endorsements, fame...

That's some weird sophistry. We don't "demand super human feats". It's the nature of sport that competitors wish to win, and the dope works. That's about it.
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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It astounds me that people are willing to risk their health doing this stuff. At least if you are taking prescription grade steroids you know you are likely getting what is on the bottle.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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I would love it if some hacker got that list and put it up somewhere. And it seems from the article that it was primarily sprint and power sports, at least what they mentioned. Football, Track, weight lifting, etc. Somewhat encouraged that not one mention of an individual endurance sport was flagged, at least something kind of positive I guess.
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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AAF also includes a drug test that indicates use of a banned substance, but it is not the same thing as a final finding of a doping violation. It's kinda like the first indication of a doping violation that triggers the deeper investigation.

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Ed O'Malley
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Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
It astounds me that people are willing to risk their health doing this stuff. At least if you are taking prescription grade steroids you know you are likely getting what is on the bottle.

Nah, the side effects of these drugs are generally so far-removed and NOT lethal even with regular use, that it's super easy to overlook any risks and just focus on the positive winning parts of it.

Even scientists readily acknowledge that the big bad scary "oooh ANABOLIC STEROIDS' health risk has been mightily overstated - the number of people who die from anabolic steroids is miniscule compared to the number of folks dying from Tylenol or aspirin overdosing, and I think I saw a that it was still that case even when adjusted for per user (so not just because a million times more people take tylenol).

Biologicall, tylenol can kill you very quick with an inadvertent overdose, by killing your liver. Especially if you have a bad liver to begin with (drinkers, anyone?)

Anabolic steroids on the other hand don't have a ready direct-route to killing you. I think the main risk of death is from sudden withdrawal after long term high dosage use of steroids since your body crashes out, but those are rare. Your nuts will shrink though!
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I believe they are also associated with hypertension and dyslipidemia increasing risk of cardiovascular disease.

Probably fall somewhere in between marijuana and tobacco on the spectrum of likely to kill you, but I don't have a sense of which one they are closer to.
Last edited by: ThisIsIt: Mar 26, 18 9:56
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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The thing that is confusing to me in this article is the apparent lumping together of all peptides. My understanding is that peptides and proteins are the same thing (strings of amino acids) but with peptides having strings of less than 100 and proteins of 100 or more. I am guessing there must be thousands of different peptides in the food we eat all the time. So there are only a subset of peptides that would be considered PEDs. I think some (or all) hormones are peptides -- is that correct? Can someone that understands this straighten me out?
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
If USADA has really exhausted all their options to hold people accountable, they should just publish the whole list and let the athletic communities shun those athletes.

I agree with this
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
It astounds me that people are willing to risk their health...

Among the drugs the article did mention - "... One sped the healing of tendons and ligaments. ..." . How is that risking one's health? Sounds rather opposite. And while we are at it should we also ban any medical treatment of various sport related traumas as it seem to fall under "... sped healing..." clause.
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Re: "a raging river in a much larger doping ecosystem" [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Actually tylenol will kill you over a week or two of liver failure. And it would be a miserable way to die. Fortunately I have yet to see it happen in a patient. I guess my point is if there is some peptide in the bottle I'm not worried about my health but what if there is something else harmful in there. I had a patient on ventilator for over a week last year after smoking dope and they never did figure out what it was contaminated with.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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