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"Twisted Hips"
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Hi Twitchers,

Looking for good info., on bike saddle position and the mystery of bike fit when it comes to having a twisted pelvis (rotated). Any links/articles or even better; your own personal findings would be great. Please share!

Cheers,
G
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [apache] [ In reply to ]
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Article addressing your question:

https://www.cycling-inform.com/...ry-an-answer-at-last

Custom saddle website:

https://www.meld3d.com

For me: one cleat is built up under the sole of my left shoe. Anatomical LLD as measured by x-ray. No other bike mods.

To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.
Last edited by: Tsunami: Feb 17, 19 6:32
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [apache] [ In reply to ]
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I just went through this exact thing at the FIST bike fitting workshop at Slowtwitch HQ in CA. I apparently slide off the saddle to the left side quite badly. We addressed this by shimming my left cleat (diagnosed left leg discrepancy) and used an adjustable saddle by moving it off to the left side that I slipped to, as well as moving my left pedal out to be more under my hip. Results were pretty good.



apache wrote:
Hi Twitchers,

Looking for good info., on bike saddle position and the mystery of bike fit when it comes to having a twisted pelvis (rotated). Any links/articles or even better; your own personal findings would be great. Please share!

Cheers,
G

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Last edited by: ericMPro: Feb 17, 19 7:07
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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I think that's why I can't ride a split saddle. My left leg is shorter by ~2cm and it's all in the femur. It's partially corrected with a shorter crank and shim, but I still sit to the left. I don't even notice it until I get on a split saddle and one of the prongs hits me in a really bad place....
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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well cool thing that I discovered when one of the other fitters showed me was that the Bi Saddle is independently adjustable, so you can move each side and get the prongs to hit the right spots.

rruff wrote:
I think that's why I can't ride a split saddle. My left leg is shorter by ~2cm and it's all in the femur. It's partially corrected with a shorter crank and shim, but I still sit to the left. I don't even notice it until I get on a split saddle and one of the prongs hits me in a really bad place....

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Eric
I'm interested in your experience with the BiSaddle. I have a similar issue to the one you describe here, except I "slide' or hang off the saddle on the right side. Curious to hear if your still experiencing success with the BiSaddle, and if you have any further insights from having spent some time with the BiSaddle, shim, and cleat re-positioning solution.

Thanks!
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [pixel_eater] [ In reply to ]
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I continue to experiment with the Bi-Saddle, but mostly I'm still riding on my Fizik Mistica Large saddle.

I certainly felt more comfortable and more even on the Bi-Saddle... I could widen the saddle out to the side I lean to putting me back straight. The problem for me is that I lean because, in addition to comfort, I have a leg length discrepancy. So, straightening my hips on the saddle just opens up another can of worms with cleat shims and biomechanical knee issues on the short side.

It's a work in progress. I have years of pedaling style to undo but the Bi-Saddle certainly has helped my comfort.

Eric

pixel_eater wrote:
Hi Eric
I'm interested in your experience with the BiSaddle. I have a similar issue to the one you describe here, except I "slide' or hang off the saddle on the right side. Curious to hear if your still experiencing success with the BiSaddle, and if you have any further insights from having spent some time with the BiSaddle, shim, and cleat re-positioning solution.

Thanks!

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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For years, fitters shimmed my cleats to varying extremes to help me get a more balanced pedaling motion. During a recent Reutil fit for my TT bike, the fitter noticed that my hips twisted from left to right. I visited two different physical therapist and everyone agreed that there was no evident leg length discrepancy. One PT said that it was structural and that I had to live with it and the other worked some magic and gave some exercises to do. After a few months of work, I went back to the fitter to dial in the fit based on any changes. The twist was gone and so were all of the shims.

All that is just to support the comments made by most that they have a verified leg length discrepancy and thus shims. Lazy/knowledgeable fitters will use shims as a shortcut or crutch. Make sure you fitter is fixing the underlying issue and not putting a bandaid on it and you will be light years ahead. It takes some work and time, but it is worth it.
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [apache] [ In reply to ]
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"Twisted Hips" sounds like a band name; I'm thinking something 80s synth-pop-ish

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [ntnyln] [ In reply to ]
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Would you mind sharing your PT regime? I've gotten rid of most of a previously diagnosed lld, but still have twisting of the hips on the bike.

Thanks!
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [pixel_eater] [ In reply to ]
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pixel_eater wrote:
Would you mind sharing your PT regime? I've gotten rid of most of a previously diagnosed lld, but still have twisting of the hips on the bike.

Thanks!

The exercises were pretty straight forward and what I expected, except for one set of movements. The real magic was that she trained under an osteopath and the work she did to release the offending muscles was nothing short of astounding. When I left the first session, I was thinking it was going to end up being another dead end. But the next day, I felt the adhesion's in my right side abdominal's releasing. I was kind of astounded based on what she did (pressure point type work). This release allowed the exercises to work.

The routine was pretty simple and combined with the body work:
Bridges/Single Leg Bridges
Lunge Hip Flexor Stretches
Table Top Core movement
Internal Hip Rotation (sit on the floor with knees bent and rotate one knee inwards toward the ground)
and the one that I think did the most was sitting on one of those big exercise balls and moving the pelvis front to back, left and right and rotate in circles in both directions.

I think the ball exercise helped the most because it strengthened and taught the underlying muscles control rather then allowing the big muscles of the hip complex to fully determine the position of the pelvis. This helped mitigate the strength imbalance that I have while I worked on that. This is much the same process when people work on their rotator cuff. When you use heavy weights for the recommended exercises, the smaller muscles can no longer do the work and the bigger muscles of the shoulder girdle take over and you end up doing little for the rotator cuff muscles.
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [apache] [ In reply to ]
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Years of bad habits had left me a little funny and uneven. I had always had issues with one quad, specifically the outside (vastus lateralis) being over fatigued and unconfortable on one side after long bikes. For runs I was always unbalanced according to Garmin, my GCT balance was super skewed.

After I upped my training and it was getting to be a distraction, I went to my physician and she saw no discrepancies in lengths. Yoga/PT didn't do much and a friend suggested a chiropractor. I was super skeptical, but went to try it. (Worth nothing that the chiropractor had studied in Denmark where they have an actual degree that is like 2 years medical, then 2 years in Chiropractic as a specialization inside medicine).

She said she basically straightened my hips/pevlis. I immediately felt the difference in both my pedal stroke and no longer ended long rides with discomfort on the one side. After 3 sessions I actually had to readjust my whole stride while running to account (it was super awkward for a few weeks).

Completely a single data point, but I was shocked how much a few sessions did.

The UK has just started to dive into which of these are actually clinically effective:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20184717/
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [Foolless] [ In reply to ]
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It took me about 8 years to get my twisted hips 'resolved' and its still not really fixed. IMO its something that needs to get straightened out before you even get on the bike. For me, I have an unstable left pelvis, so even sleeping on that side twists things, so I have a regimen of exercises to align it. Sometimes I'll even do it mid ride.

I could get a screw put in that fixes it; but that's a last resort.
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [furiousferret] [ In reply to ]
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is your SI joint lax by any chance? If so I'd love to hear what you're doing.
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [kiki] [ In reply to ]
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My left side has a bunch of loose ligaments. I put that leg on something high and put all my weight on it, pushing around in different angles until it 'sets'. Its ever better if you can push down into it. I have to do that every morning because I always wake with it out of place in some form.

I also do this:

https://www.youtube.com/...MBFSPNTe&index=2
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [furiousferret] [ In reply to ]
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thank you! I ultimately may get my SI pinned but would like to try muscular reset first. If I can train stability in that seems preferable.
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
I certainly felt more comfortable and more even on the Bi-Saddle... I could widen the saddle out to the side I lean to putting me back straight. The problem for me is that I lean because, in addition to comfort, I have a leg length discrepancy. So, straightening my hips on the saddle just opens up another can of worms with cleat shims and biomechanical knee issues on the short side.

Is the length discrepancy in the upper or lower leg? Or both?

A shorter crank seems to work best if it's the upper leg.
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Re: "Twisted Hips" [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
ericMPro wrote:
I certainly felt more comfortable and more even on the Bi-Saddle... I could widen the saddle out to the side I lean to putting me back straight. The problem for me is that I lean because, in addition to comfort, I have a leg length discrepancy. So, straightening my hips on the saddle just opens up another can of worms with cleat shims and biomechanical knee issues on the short side.


Is the length discrepancy in the upper or lower leg? Or both?

A shorter crank seems to work best if it's the upper leg.

It's been so long now I can't remember but I think it's both. I have a good solution with a shim to correct lower leg length and cleat fore/aft to correct for upper leg. I have two different methods, one for road bike and one for TT bike fit.

It feels pretty symmetrical now. When I ride uncorrected it feels completely weird. I'm sensitive/aware though.... I change some people's cleats during bike fits and they can't even tell.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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