If you look at the seat tube/seat stay junction, they appear to be different frames.

the bottom one looks just like a walser. my guess is that it is one.

the top one is unknown to me. it is some kind of new design. a "p2k" type frame with a "p3" type full rear wheel coverage. clever, i think.

maybe someone at SBI even designed it...

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Where would you want to swim ?

They're both Walsers. Top one is the newest model, just now getting to the very, very top guys. Rich (guy in the top picture) is the official Walser test rider - he gets the first of everything. Levi is on one, too, btw.







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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

top one is a smart design. possibly even inspired by the folks at the big C.

thanks for the info.

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Where would you want to swim ?

Its pretty clear Rich's is a Walser...the general design idiom of both bikes is the same...Rich's is probably the latest incarnation... if you go to the Walser site there are several iterations of their bike in existence...

Actually, I think it's less of a P3 influence, more of a BMC. BMC did this with the front end of the bike, Walser moved it to the rear. It's an excercise in dodging the UCI design rules, and the BMC bike set the precedent thusly:

By enlarging the major diameter of frame members at their juncture point with other members, and calling this a structural/joint reinforcement, we can skirt/ignore the dimensional limitation on frame members imposed by the UCI.

So, Walser drops the seatstay juncture down to a point on the seat tube where it is nearly co-planar with the top of the rear wheel, "webs" that juncture point, and Bam! Fully faired rear wheel.

This is clever mostly because it's sneaky, and because the knuckle heads at the UCI don't know enough about engineering/design to actually enforce/explain their own rules in a logically coherent manner. Any truly honest assessment of their take on bike design criteria would read something like "as long as it looks like the arbitrary picture we have in our pointy little heads, it's OK, but the second you step over this imaginary line, we will re-interpret or re-write the rules."

Well, this still looks like "a bike," so they're gonna let it pass, even though it's a fudge-sundae interpretation of the written guidelines...

And, BTW, I'm AMAZED that anyone could OK the Orbea Ordu based on the UCI rules, as written. I bet it never would have passed muster if it was a Cannondale...



(all this, of course, based entirely on a few pictures, and some guesswork as to the actual dimensions of the frame members [for the Walser, that is...])



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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

So when are they going to bring the seat tube angle up to match the whole rest of the bike and the way that everyone is riding it? Right now it appears that the geometry is all steep and low except for the seat tube.

I suppose they could come up with a way to move the seat back for the vast minority of users who need to conform to UCI rules. That way they can perch on the very end of the saddle rather than actually sit on it.

Not to rant, but everyone is riding about 78* anyway, why not just let them put the seat under their butts?

it is a slick machine, I have talked to andy (walser) about this...

rich is on the model 6 as are a handfull of others.

supposed to be available mid-season. Andy has been busy with the winter olympics....

here is a cool pic, you can kind of see it on the rich bike, although he isn't using the LOW position an has a traditional stem location...



g

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greg
www.wattagetraining.com

Wow:



Is it a custom stem?

mounts THOUGHT the head tube...

g

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greg
www.wattagetraining.com

I'll make that damn thing fit !!!!!!! Thats just awesome.

That bike is SICK. Ullich should ride one and paint it pink. I'll take it over any other Tour TT bike! Also, I love the cranks, very narrow Q-angle.

Dave in VA

My last name is WALSER-ANDERSON. Wonder if I qualify for a family discount?

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Lisa Walser-Anderson, ATC,CSCS

Man...that's gonna give Bjorn some ideas.

this it the "narrow bike" trek was copying in testing....

it has a 50mm bb

g

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greg
www.wattagetraining.com

The same thing was discussed here last summer: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=449084

Some Gerolsteiner TT bike's with the low seat stays was/is a German FES (Institut für Forschung und Entwicklung von Sportgeräten) http://www.fes-sport.de/radsport.htm, like Ullrich has also ridden earlier in his career (Ulrrich has also ridden Walser later on). But it looks like the model shown here with the low seat stays is a Walser model 6, it looks very similar to FES, but there's a difference at the seat clamp, which is higher thanthe top tupe on a FES

A Gerolsteiner FES re-badged as Wilier:







Here's a FES that looks more like Walser model 5, with higher seat stays:

After looking on their website, this looks alot like the model 3?

Dave in VA