I think "certification" is just verbiage for pay even more money to race. You would wind up with WTC races requiring "special" $200 WTC approved open water clinics which would most likely wind up being useless. Then you wind up with the situation where rural racers don't have a "certified" class near by and would have to travel to get it done (or do it the day before race day for an extra premium). All in all, it would do more to deter poor people from racing than bad swimmers.


I say if you want to make a positive impact, you regulate the crap out of wetsuit thickness to the point that they still keep you warm but provide minimal flotation. Take away the crutch and maybe people will take it seriously.

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sometimes you just have to eat the cake

Agreed: If you need a wetsuit to swim in open water and panic without it, you shouldn't be racing.

Better education on how a wetsuit feels in race conditions would help, too.

Can't remember the exact numbers, and it may have been for here in Australia, but I remember reading some numbers along the lines of 19 deaths over a period of time and 14 were in the swim. So swimming would appear to be much more dangerous.

However, it would be interesting to see how many of those deaths were actually related to swimming ability. I feel (without knowing the facts) that most were probably heart attack from otherwise fit people.

So testing swimming ability wouldn't necessarily be effective in reducing triathlon deaths.

RDs registering too many athletes is the problem, i.e., The Nation's Tri, Chicago, NYC. . .
They can't manage the course properly with the high number of participants. It's a bad trend.

Do you have any actual facts to back up your hypothesis that larger triathlons are more dangerous?

I'm not trying to be insensitive to those who have lost their lives, as I believe that most who die on the swim are actually good swimmers that have heart attacks and there is very little to be helped about that. But how about big signs at the race that say

"No life Guards On Duty. Swim At Your Own Risk. If you are not 100% sure that you can swim at least twice this distance keep your butt out of the water or risk Death."

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This dude has a great writeup on this topic. Fact-based opinion...

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/...-triathlon-swim.html

I researched this a while ago, and was able to find 8 to 9 of the deaths and the follow up reports. Every death I found was related to heart/medical conditions. Over the same period of time... more Club/Pro soccer players have dropped dead playing or practicing.

You push your body and deaths happen. Bodies break and %*^& happens. It is a part of life. Maybe pro soccer players need a cert saying they can run for 20 minutes without stopping.

Exactly. Commonsense.

While nobody likes to see anyone die in an event, given the sheer volume of people doing tris, it's probably a surprise there aren't more deaths.

http://www.scientificpsychic.com/.../sport_injuries.html

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The problem is that once out onto the slippery slope, it's really hard to retreat.

Somewhere in thew last 10 - 15 years we reached a Tipping Point with triathlon where, it became "normal" for people, who had no athletic experience or endurance sports training back-ground, go out and within a year or two do an Ironman. Don't get me wrong, we admire the pluck, and the determination, of those who have and do take on the challenge but in a very short period of time, these tests of extreme all-day endurance became a kind of every-man challenge. I always ask now, Why Ironman? Why can't it be some more reasonable challenge?

So once out onto the slippery slope, to retreat in anyway or put gates up in anyway, will result in howls of protest from many. People want to be free to make their own choices and decisions about this - right or wrong - and if they are wrong, well, they want to figure that out for themselves. It's a common trend in many areas of our lives these days.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I don't think test should be manditory or required. The logistical cost is just too high to justify it. I'm not saying that the life of someone who dies in a triathlon is insignificant, but even if we make races death proof (which is basically impossible), you just saved what...15-20 lives over 10 years.

How many thousands of lives can we save by focusing our time and effort elsewhere? If the USAT, or any other race organization wants to spend money to prevent deaths, then they should be spending more money advocating couch potatoes to get up off their butts and start exercising. And do so in a way that's safe, and will prevent injury. Personally, I don't know anyone that has died during a race...for any reason. I do however know many people who have died (or will die) as a direct result of their poor lifestyle choices.

I'm all for saftey measures...but I think a simple warning in your race packet or before you sign up for registration that clearly states the dangers of triathlon is more than enough...and costs basically nothing.

It understand this is just the way it works, but it's sad when 2 lives lost in the Hudson river makes headlines and causes widespread debate...when 822 people die EVERYDAY due to obesity related medical issues (don't quote me on that...it's from answers.com. even if the number is not accurate, you get the point).

I'm confused by your link. It does not list a single triathlon in the report and in fact says most swimming injuries come from people hitting their heads or feet in pools.

are you saying that cycling injuries in the general public are related to triathlons? Are you saying large triathlons are not more dangerous? Large triathlons are more dangerous? or that a bunch of 12 year old statistics some how relate to this discussion...

Part I disagree with there, Steve, is that I agree that there are a ton of "bucket-listers" but even given the huge rise in numbers, the fatalities are extremely uncommon.

My point with choosing pro/club footballers...
-- They are young. Most of the deaths were mid 20s
-- They are in shape. These are people that run up and down on a daily basis
-- They are not weekend warriors, but are making a professional/semi-professional living
-- They are also more likely to be regularly medical examined because of contracts, team doctors etc.

How many profession soccer players are there? There are some odd 50,000 Pro and club soccer players in the world, but over the same period of time, there have been twice as many soccer deaths than triathlete deaths.

The slippery slope is abdicating self-responsibility to outside interests. On our school grounds Tag, Dodgeball and other activities are now consider "too dangerous".

Which is safer? The bicycle or the motorcycle? Per mile traveled you are 3 to 11 times more likely to get killed on bicycle than a motorcycle. The main difference comes in the estimation of cycling miles per the US dept of Trans.

In fact some would say ban bicycles all together and you will save 750 some odd live a year.

How many have died in triathlons over the last 10 years? Roughly 7500 have died cycling... Which is more dangerous???

I agree there are a lot more "non-athletes" doing triathlons, but surprisingly it is still a relatively safe sport.

I can look at well trained athletes, and those who do sports for a living and show a higher number of deaths. I can also look at the more casual and more cyclists will die in a week in the US, than those doing triathlons over 10 years.

Perhaps better than the tests would be requiring a sprint before a oly, before a half, before a full.

I could easily swim a couple miles in in the pool before my first .6mi sprint swim. It was actually somewhat scarey doing the first sprint and I was pushing it way too hard, but survived. After that I went to the free OWS's that CGI Racing put on. More RDs should do this for the customers. After a few of those, the second race, an OLY was much easier. I was not stressed out.

I've swimmed in lakes before so I'm not sure that an OWS clinic would have helped. I think I had to experience a race once and then the OWS practice swims built back my confidence.

The national average in 2007 is over 800 deaths per 100,000 people.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

Apparently, just living requires an extensive network of testing to make it safer.

Triathlon, with it's measly 14-16 deaths per 100,000, with no testing at all, seems like a safe place to seek refuge from the carnage

Nah I jist did a search and copied the first thing that came up.
Did you read the whole thing . hahahahahahab..... Na kidding I read it to. Just giving some statistics to the post. At least there are some cycling ones on there ;0)

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+1

OK, I see your logic, but, if one follows that, should runs require that you do at least a 5k before you enter a 10k and then do a 10k before you enter a half and then do half before you enter a marathon? While that may not be a bad progression to follow, who is responsible for making sure an athlete follows a smart progression? Race directors? They kind of have a lot on their plates as it is.

Everything cannot be spelled out and 100% enforced. I am not sure why, but strangely it seems that we have come to the point where people have not figured out that poor (or no) preparation for an athletic event can mean an un-fun time, an injury, or some very bad things.

A freak out in the water (especially in the ocean) or any number of bad moves on a bike can easily mean death. Has the 'video game culture' made it so that some participants think that everything is a fantasy experience and any bad outcome can be easily corrected with a 'game restart'?

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There should be a test before you can start training.

That's funny !

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Fleck - How many of the deaths in triathlon happen at an Iron-distance race? Seems like the one's I have heard of over the past few years have happened during Olympic or Sprint Distance.

Why is the focus only on the athlete? Many of the waves have swimmers with dark caps, the swim is downstream which (in my opinion) makes it harder to watch and rescue swimmers, and the wetsuits are black because???? I personally would like to see brightly colored suits. More safety measures protect everyone, even the real strong swimmers. If an athlete has a heart attack and is found floating in the water sometime later, that raises a lot of questions about safety.

Bet more lives would be saved if there ws no cell phone usage driving to the swim