"NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification

Jul 15, 13 19:28

Post #1 of 83 (8441 views)

Raced Vineman 70.3 yesterday, first half of the year and was informed of a "new" rule on Saturday at the race brief. They said at the briefing that you could NOT clip your shoes into the pedals in T1, and that it was a "new" WTC Rule. I thought it was strange so figured I would ask after the brief for some clarification. I believe it was David Latourette who did the race briefing and who I spoke with afterwards. Now he is just the messenger and was just relaying the information, so that is why I am looking for clarification. He made it sound like it was a "safety issue" and that is why you could not do it. So if that is a true statement that it is truly a safety issue then why are the pros allowed to do it? That is what I said to him and his response was "They have different rules, and if you want to race pro then go for it and you can race under the 12m draft rule as well".

So what is the deal with this "new" rule. Of all races, Vineman is a race where in my opinion it is more dangerous to be in your shoes running up that hill out of T1. Not sure if Jimmy is still head referee at WTC, but hoping he can or someone with more knowledge on the subject can chime in. I asked a referee pre race and he didn't even know what the penalty was because that was not "his area" to watch. He asked someone another referee and they said that is was a DQ if you had your shoes attached to your bike leaving T1. Sounds a little extreme to me.............

-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [afbadbrad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 19:34

Post #2 of 83 (8415 views)

People (pros and amateurs alike) screw up frequently trying to get into shoes clipped into pedals. Plus they tend to take out others. The rule makes a bit of sense. i want to leave my shoes in my pedals but I don't want others around me to do the same.

Styrrell

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [styrrell] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 19:38

Post #3 of 83 (8387 views)

Couldn't agree more that some people struggle to mount their bikes with shoes clipped in. If it is truly a safety issue then it should be a rule for pros and AG'ers. I have come to the conclusion that if the mount line is congested to run 10-15ft beyond it and then do a flying mount. Tends to get you out of the way of the sketchy people trying to mount.

-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [afbadbrad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 19:42

Post #4 of 83 (8354 views)

I don't think it's a rule that's punishable with a 4 minute penalty or DQ. I think they're just trying to discourage people from doing it, and perhaps is why they're passing it as a rule rule. Either way, people were still doing it at Vineman... I was in the 2nd to last wave and got to transition early and saw quite a few people attempt it. None, that I saw, successfully spending considerably more time being "fast transitioners" than those running up the hill or just riding up the hill.

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [afbadbrad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 19:45

Post #5 of 83 (8345 views)

Weird. Was that a rule just for Vineman? I had my shoes clipped in at Muncie and saw a bunch of others with their shoes clipped in to. I get it can be a safety issue at the IM distance since there are so many more people coming out at the same time but for a 70.3 I feel like the waves spread people out enough where it doesn't make as big of a deal. And the people who would fumble around getting themselves into their shoes will probably fumble around trying to clip in.

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Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [afbadbrad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 19:45

Post #6 of 83 (8340 views)

Never heard of this rule. Have Ironman Steelhead coming up. Are we really suppose to run in bike shoes? People NOT doing a flying mount are the problem. They stop AT the mount line blocking everyone behind them.

Is this a USAT rule as well?

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [afbadbrad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 19:47

Post #7 of 83 (8330 views)

I always thought that bike shoes had to be in the transition bags and not on bikes for WTC races--- this is from their "rules' Page

7. Helmets, bike shoes and other cycling gear MUST be placed inside the athlete�s Swim-to-Bike Gear Bag and may NOT be attached to the pedals. Only professional athletes may attach shoes to the pedals. Shoes and shirt must be worn at all times.

Originally from: http://www.ironman.com/...s.aspx#ixzz2ZAlwg0t8

Graham Wilson
USAT Level III Elite Coach
http://www.thewilsongroup.biz

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [afbadbrad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 19:50

Post #8 of 83 (8310 views)

I am an old age grouper and have never taken anyone out on a flying mount. For what it is worth, I did not hear anything about such a rule at the Muncie 70.3 athlete brief this past weekend. Further, my shoes were clipped in the pedals at transition and could have been spotted by any ref trolling the bikes during the swim. I did a flying mount out of T1 and was not penalized. But the road out of T1 at Muncie is flat so maybe it is just a race specific thing. I doubt it is a new rule.

The only new rule I heard about at Muncie was a 4 min in place penalty during the run for intentional littering before/after 10 yards from the aid station line. That said, I did not see a single ref on the run.

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [afbadbrad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 19:51

Post #9 of 83 (8308 views)

[pink] Congestion at the mount line?

Sounds like you are using too much energy on the swim.

Swim 1:30+ and this won't be an issue. [/pink]

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [jrielley] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 19:51

Post #10 of 83 (8309 views)

Exactly my point, if it is really a rule I am fine with that but being consistently enforced would be nice. That is why I was looking for clarification if it is really a WTC rule or not.

-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [feman] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 19:53

Post #11 of 83 (8296 views)

not all WTC races use transition bags

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Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [afbadbrad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 19:53

Post #12 of 83 (8293 views)

Last time I ran in bike shoes I broke a LOOK cleat. Thankfully bike support at T1 had a cleat.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [feman] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 19:54

Post #13 of 83 (8288 views)

They didn't have transition area racks with bags like other IMs. They gave you one clear bag for you to put your swim stuff in afterwards and that was it. T2 you just have your stuff laying on the grass, so anyone coming through transition area during the day Saturday could just pick up anything laying around. Thought that was odd as well.

-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [afbadbrad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 19:58

Post #14 of 83 (8268 views)

St. George had the same thing this year too. No clipped in shoes, no helmets on bikes, everything in T1 & T2 had to remain in your bags, absolutely no set-up. Volunteers were unclipping shoes if they were clipped in. I listened, I don't want anyone touching my shit.

"Though she be but little, she is fierce" ~Shakespeare | Powered by HD Coaching | 2014 Wattie Ink Triathlon Team | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [kmh1225] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 20:05

Post #15 of 83 (8226 views)

Soon we will need to sit in wheel chairs at swim exist and a volunteer will roll you to your transition. They will then roll you and your bike to T1 exit where there will a step ladder to help you get on you bike. You will be surrounded by bubble wrap in case you fall.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [guppie58] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 20:06

Post #16 of 83 (8223 views)

I took my shoes, ran all the way to the top of the hill this weekend. Set the bike on the railing and then put my shoes on and clipped in and tightened them down once I got going. I can't stand running in my bike shoes, especially when there was mud spots in transition area this weekend.

-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [afbadbrad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 20:08

Post #17 of 83 (8212 views)

Interesting, read Bike Rule #7 :)

http://www.vineman.com/...nman+70.3+Events.pdf

I do recall it being a RD decision. Some allow it, some don't depending on circumstances.

Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [guppie58] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 20:09

Post #18 of 83 (8204 views)

I'm OK with this "rule". Maybe the OP is more than capable of doing it... I'm sure he is. I think he was the fastest Amateur overall (congrats BTW), but the truth is, most people can't, even though they think they can.

As for why the amateurs can't do it while the pros can? I imagine it's similar deal to that answer parents give kids "because I'm your dad and I said so".

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [rbuike] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 20:23

Post #19 of 83 (8156 views)

Rodney,

That is the 2011 rules, so maybe they are "outdated". It was made very clear at the race briefing that it could NOT be done. And everyone had to attend that, they stamped hands on the way out, and you had to show that at the packet pickup.

-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [AndresLD] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 20:23

Post #20 of 83 (8156 views)

I suck so bad at getting my shoes locked in to my pedals that I would be a wreck trying to run in my shoes and get them into the pedals at the start (I'm a mountain biker). I hate stop light so much if I cant find a pole to lean on that I usually pull my feet out of my shoes for a stop light. If it is cold out I unclip but for how many times I have nearly rode in to traffic trying to get my shoe locked in the pedal while starting off, I should really be dead.

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [AndresLD] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 20:25

Post #21 of 83 (8145 views)

Andres,

Thanks for the congrats, didn't need that in this thread, but greatly appreciate it. I will post a race report soon on here.

-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [AndresLD] [ In reply to ]

CobraKai Triguy

Jul 15, 13 20:29

Post #22 of 83 (8126 views)

AndresLD wrote:

I'm OK with this "rule". Maybe the OP is more than capable of doing it... I'm sure he is. I think he was the fastest Amateur overall (congrats BTW), but the truth is, most people can't, even though they think they can.

As for why the amateurs can't do it while the pros can? I imagine it's similar deal to that answer parents give kids "because I'm your dad and I said so".

Most people can't? It took me less than 5 minutes of practice to do it proficiently. I think we just hear more about the ppl jacking it up than we do of the ones doing it successfully and that makes everyone think it's a huge deal. Just like we heard about Macca going head first into Marino last year.

______________________________________________

"Sweep the leg...Do you have a problem with that?" - John Kreese

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [feman] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 20:33

Post #23 of 83 (8108 views)

IM Cabo had transition bags but you could still have your shoes clipped in.

feman wrote:

I always thought that bike shoes had to be in the transition bags and not on bikes for WTC races--- this is from their "rules' Page

7. Helmets, bike shoes and other cycling gear MUST be placed inside the athlete�s Swim-to-Bike Gear Bag and may NOT be attached to the pedals. Only professional athletes may attach shoes to the pedals. Shoes and shirt must be worn at all times.

Originally from: http://www.ironman.com/...s.aspx#ixzz2ZAlwg0t8

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [afbadbrad] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 20:43

Post #24 of 83 (8074 views)

Coeur d'Alene did not want shoes clipped in either....I thought it was just a Coeur d'Alene thing, not an actual rule for other races too.

-----

"i�m the one guy who says don�t force the stupid people to be quiet � i want to know who the morons are." -- mark cuban

Re: "NEW" WTC Rule?? Clarification [tdschnei] [ In reply to ]

Jul 15, 13 20:48

Post #25 of 83 (8050 views)

Most people can do it OK but in a wtc race that has 2000+ people at least 200 weave and I'd be surprised if they don't have one one accident due to this at every single WTC race. Given that the main goal of many if not most entrants is to finish I can see why WTC implements a rule that prevent one person from crashing another out.

Styrrell

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