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"Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo
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Hi,

currently I use a plastic Elite Bottle cage in combination with a Camelback Podium bottle between my aero bars, but even though it appears tight, I had a bottle come undone yesterday. I noticed that little bumps cause the bottle to travel further towards me. So my question is, if anyone got a recommendation for a cheap & solid cage / bottle combo?

what would be the last resort? Zipp Vuka BTA or Xlab Gorilla XT?

cheers
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Fenton] [ In reply to ]
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You can modify most cages pretty simply to make them better suited to the BTA position. Here's a little guide I wrote a looooooong time ago:
https://rappstar.com/...anti-ejection-cages/

I helped design the Zipp BTA mount & accompanying cage, and am certainly biased to that, and think it is very, very good. But I'll admit it doesn't meet your "cheap" requirement...


"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp | Game Designer @ Zwift

Ask me about: 1st Endurance | Normatec - $100 off RAPP2019 | Zipp | Quarq | SRAM
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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thanks Jordan. btw. got the Zipp mount and love it :)

will check out your article (already tried zip ties & rubber band)

Rappstar wrote:
You can modify most cages pretty simply to make them better suited to the BTA position. Here's a little guide I wrote a looooooong time ago:
https://rappstar.com/...anti-ejection-cages/

I helped design the Zipp BTA mount & accompanying cage, and am certainly biased to that, and think it is very, very good. But I'll admit it doesn't meet your "cheap" requirement...
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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is the Zipp cage actually that much different to other cages that bottles won't come loose?
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Fenton] [ In reply to ]
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Fenton wrote:
is the Zipp cage actually that much different to other cages that bottles won't come loose?

I've not used enough other cages in BTA config to make a comparison. Here's what I say about how we designed the Zipp cage, and hopefully that's helpful.

It was designed explicitly for BTA use. That's why it's not a "split" design and instead has a band that spans across the whole bottle. That's to keep the bottle from ejecting vertically if you hit a big bump. When I tested some of the super-light Zipp cages on the BTA mount (which we finished the design of first), they would eject bottles because of the split; the cockpit of the bike deflects more than the main triangle when you hit a bump, and the SL cages were designed for use within the main triangle.

Now, you can go with a tighter cage with a split design - like the XLab cage - but in the same way that those cages hold the bottle really, really tight, I also find that it's harder to pull a bottle out. I love the XLab cages; that's what I use behind the saddle, because they are designed to have a bottle pulled straight up. When you're pulling a bottle out of a BTA cage, you are pulling it what would be more laterally if the cage were mounted in traditional up/down configuration.

So basically, the Zipp cage is designed is to be secure in the BTA orientation while also having it be pretty easy to slide the bottle in and out. Does that make sense and is that helpful?


"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp | Game Designer @ Zwift

Ask me about: 1st Endurance | Normatec - $100 off RAPP2019 | Zipp | Quarq | SRAM
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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yeah, makes sense, thanks

re XLab ...was thinking the same, that they might be too tight for cockpit use

Rappstar wrote:
Fenton wrote:
is the Zipp cage actually that much different to other cages that bottles won't come loose?


I've not used enough other cages in BTA config to make a comparison. Here's what I say about how we designed the Zipp cage, and hopefully that's helpful.

It was designed explicitly for BTA use. That's why it's not a "split" design and instead has a band that spans across the whole bottle. That's to keep the bottle from ejecting vertically if you hit a big bump. When I tested some of the super-light Zipp cages on the BTA mount (which we finished the design of first), they would eject bottles because of the split; the cockpit of the bike deflects more than the main triangle when you hit a bump, and the SL cages were designed for use within the main triangle.

Now, you can go with a tighter cage with a split design - like the XLab cage - but in the same way that those cages hold the bottle really, really tight, I also find that it's harder to pull a bottle out. I love the XLab cages; that's what I use behind the saddle, because they are designed to have a bottle pulled straight up. When you're pulling a bottle out of a BTA cage, you are pulling it what would be more laterally if the cage were mounted in traditional up/down configuration.

So basically, the Zipp cage is designed is to be secure in the BTA orientation while also having it be pretty easy to slide the bottle in and out. Does that make sense and is that helpful?
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Fenton] [ In reply to ]
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I used to have the same problem;

I love the Profile Design Kage (no typo here).

http://www.profile-design.com/...dration/axis-kage-2/

> Very cheap (6-7$) hydration solution
> Has an o-ring acting as elastic to secure bottle
> Has a big back plastic rib that you can drill as needed to pass zip ties to tie up as BTA solution, or behind saddle solution (zip ties = also cheap and light!!!!)

Never ejected a bottle off the front since then;

For behind the seat, I added an elastic band to grab the nozzle of the bottle pulling back to insure no ejection. Never had a launch since.



---------------------------------
T. Guertin / Spocket
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [spocket] [ In reply to ]
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thanks a ton, spocket! looking good

spocket wrote:
I used to have the same problem;

I love the Profile Design Kage (no typo here).

http://www.profile-design.com/...dration/axis-kage-2/

> Very cheap (6-7$) hydration solution
> Has an o-ring acting as elastic to secure bottle
> Has a big back plastic rib that you can drill as needed to pass zip ties to tie up as BTA solution, or behind saddle solution (zip ties = also cheap and light!!!!)

Never ejected a bottle off the front since then;

For behind the seat, I added an elastic band to grab the nozzle of the bottle pulling back to insure no ejection. Never had a launch since.
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [spocket] [ In reply to ]
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That partico;ar cage is actually somewhat brittle, and I had break two on me ater I modified them for BTA use.
Drill the any hole as small as possible and as far away from the ribs as feasible.

spocket wrote:
I used to have the same problem;

I love the Profile Design Kage (no typo here).

http://www.profile-design.com/...dration/axis-kage-2/

> Very cheap (6-7$) hydration solution
> Has an o-ring acting as elastic to secure bottle
> Has a big back plastic rib that you can drill as needed to pass zip ties to tie up as BTA solution, or behind saddle solution (zip ties = also cheap and light!!!!)

Never ejected a bottle off the front since then;

For behind the seat, I added an elastic band to grab the nozzle of the bottle pulling back to insure no ejection. Never had a launch since.
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Fenton] [ In reply to ]
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Specialized ribcage is cheap and so ejection proof and grips the bottle so well that I don't use it for cages that require frequent bottle removal such as bta with no straw or a road/mtb down tube

___________________________________
milesthedog on strava
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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thanks, will check it out
milesthedog wrote:
Specialized ribcage is cheap and so ejection proof and grips the bottle so well that I don't use it for cages that require frequent bottle removal such as bta with no straw or a road/mtb down tube
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Fenton] [ In reply to ]
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... found these threads as well (in case someone else is searching, too)
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ottle_Cage_P5119946/
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ottle_cage_P4636520/
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Jordan, I also have the Zipp BTA mount and cage and agree it is a great mount and the cage is quite solid, it does an admirable job of hold bike bottles.

What I've struggled with though is the cages ability to hold the "sport" bottles of water that are generally handed up at aid stations. I've found them to fit very loosely in the BTA cage. Is that a common experience, if so any reccomended workarounds?
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [robin, run] [ In reply to ]
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just an idea ...found this ( http://www.triathlete.com/...kona-felt-ia_87789 )
"In 2012, Carfrae ejected a nutrition bottle and bonked late in the marathon. This year she applied friction tape to the inside of her cage to help keep the bottle in place."


robin, run wrote:
Hi Jordan, I also have the Zipp BTA mount and cage and agree it is a great mount and the cage is quite solid, it does an admirable job of hold bike bottles.

What I've struggled with though is the cages ability to hold the "sport" bottles of water that are generally handed up at aid stations. I've found them to fit very loosely in the BTA cage. Is that a common experience, if so any reccomended workarounds?
Last edited by: Fenton: Jun 10, 17 5:41
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Fenton] [ In reply to ]
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I am using a cheap old carbon cage I had around the house because I didn't want to spend money on a new cage. I drilled holes on each side of the split cage and looped some elastic through it. Works perfectly and haven't launched a bottle and didn't spend a cent on a new cage!

My Blog - Twitter - Instagram - JonnyO Coaching - ICE Friction - SLF Motion - Own Way Apparel -
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [robin, run] [ In reply to ]
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robin, run wrote:
Hi Jordan, I also have the Zipp BTA mount and cage and agree it is a great mount and the cage is quite solid, it does an admirable job of hold bike bottles.

What I've struggled with though is the cages ability to hold the "sport" bottles of water that are generally handed up at aid stations. I've found them to fit very loosely in the BTA cage. Is that a common experience, if so any reccomended workarounds?

Unfortunately there's no common size - as there is with bike bottles - when it comes to what is used at aid stations.

You could try something like friction tape - I've used that in the past - but the reason I do not is because it makes regular bike bottles much harder to take in/out. Ultimately, I have no really good suggestions for something that holds regular bike bottles tightly AND sport bottles tightly. The design of the cage was such that - hopefully - sport bottles won't *eject,* but i certainly find they do rattle around. I just rely on my arms - my bottle is nested quite tightly in there - to hold them snug when I'm down in the aero bars. And, ideally, the only time I'm not in the aerobars is because I'm drinking so no issue.


"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp | Game Designer @ Zwift

Ask me about: 1st Endurance | Normatec - $100 off RAPP2019 | Zipp | Quarq | SRAM
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [ In reply to ]
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This morning hitting a dog at 30mph to 0 in about a second and the only thing launched was me.

Speedfil Z4/Garmin Mount BTA and Xlab Gorilla XTs on the rear with Purist bottles.
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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thanks Felt_Rider. hope you and the dog are ok

Felt_Rider wrote:
This morning hitting a dog at 30mph to 0 in about a second and the only thing launched was me.

Speedfil Z4/Garmin Mount BTA and Xlab Gorilla XTs on the rear with Purist bottles.
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Fenton] [ In reply to ]
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Fenton wrote:
thanks Felt_Rider. hope you and the dog are ok
Thanks
I think we will both be hurting tonight. I saw some of it hide and hair on the bike. Pics
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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oh, wow. glad it's nothing worse
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Fenton] [ In reply to ]
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I was using a zip-tied King stainless cage for ages as my BTA setup, and never had an ejection. Being able to bend a metal cage to fit whatever bottle is a very nice thing.

I just picked up the XLab Kompact 100 while up in LP, and it worked well for 2 loops of the bike course.
(I'm going to tinker with it to have it nest the bottle deeper between the aero extensions, but it was still fine out of the box)

The bottle it comes with is actually a little hard to pull straight out, but with just a slight twist, it comes out like a charm.
My other bottles slid in and out more easily, but also zero ejections so far.

Main reason for purchase was having the Garmin computer mount on top, where I can (kinda) see it, vs angled sideways on one of the extentions, where it was more for post ride data and Strava action, since my arms blocked it while in aero.


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Fenton] [ In reply to ]
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If it is the rear it is all about the shape in my opinion. Don't have a split in the middle of the cage as each bump/jolt loosens the cage and have the top of the cage as high up the bottle as you can so as you go over bumps gravity isn't trying to tip the bottle out. I personally use this cage with a Dash TT.9 saddle which is almost horizontal and haven't lost a bottle yet in racing or training. The rubber at the end acts as a good gripper too.

https://www.bike24.com/p271883.html
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Fenton] [ In reply to ]
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I have the Zipp BTA mount and the XLab Gorilla cage. For the state TT championship, I didn't want to lose my bottle on the rough surface like I had years before. I added a little hockey stick grip tape. Holy schnikes! I use the Specialized Purist bottle, and practically need both hands to yank it out...:) I've hit some bad potholes and thing hasn't budged. Works for me!

"Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps"
Blog = http://extrememomentum.com|Photos = http://wheelgoodphotos.com
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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Felt_Rider wrote:
Speedfil Z4/Garmin Mount BTA and Xlab Gorilla XTs on the rear with Purist bottles.

That is my exact same race setup. The Speedfil Z4 is great BTA because of the Garmin mount on top of it & the Xlab Gorilla XTs don't launch shit.

I tried a number of cages, including those Profile Designs, trying to save a few bucks. In my opinion, they are crap. The Profile Design especially. They rely on a rubber band to keep tension, but the rubber band breaks easily making it a perfect bottle launcher.
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Re: "Launch Safe" BTA bottle cage / bottle combo [Fenton] [ In reply to ]
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I'm using an XLAB Torpedo Kompact 500, but didn't like their plastic cage, and that computer mount. I took it all apart and replaced the cage with a Lezyne extruded aluminum one I had laying around. At first, my bottle would vibrate itself forward and out, but a little squeeze of the cage arms and it's working like a champ and the bottle is not hard at all to remove and replace.

Proud member of FISHTWITCH: doing a bit more than fish exercise now.
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