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"Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath
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Men's Health March 2007:

Article entitled "Exercising the Demons":
"Some people might call you highly competitive.
Some people might call you superfit.
But a growing number of doctors would label you something else: depressed."

EXCERPTED - go spend $5 to read the whole thing; it's worth it.

The article begins:
"In 1994, at the age of 33, Raymond Britt took up running. It made him feel good. In fact, the more he pushed himself, the better he felt. So each time he went out, he pushed a little harder. It seemed to put him above the turmoil of the world and afford him some relief. Relief from what - that wasn't so clear. His life was good. He was a successful executive. He had beautiful children... He became obsessed with his training. "I was excited, I was nervous, I was alive"... As he reached the 18th mile, his hopes for a life-changing experience were shattered. beating himself up both mentally and physically, he managed to drag himself over the finish line in 4 hours and 41 minutes, as he puts it, "alone, hurt, angry, unhappy". Rather than recover, he went out the next day to punish himself and prepare for the next marathon."

The article goes on to explain the differences between depression in men and women - and how real-life responses don't reflect what is often mention in depression manuals.

The article goes on:

"Men tend to get angry, and that anger expresses itself in a wide variety of intense activities, such as Britt's running. Some of these men even win marathons --in feats of work or endurance --and look like heroes, which makes it even more difficult to diagnose depression.

Britt says, 'I've always thought that Lance Armstrong suffered from depression and that's where his anger came from. I saw a lot of myself in him, the way he transfers his anger into action. Depression leads some of us to fight as hard as we can against it. It makes you angry. I liked my anger. I got focused and it felt better, like I was leaving the turmoil in the dust. But it was temporary".

The article continues, describing Britt's race career in tris, marathons, and ultras.

Towards the end of the article it says that Britt finally went to a doctor in 2004 when he wanted to escape his internal pain. The doctor asked, "When was the last time you were really happy?" The answer was, "1975".

"...because at heart of what Britt was going through was a life filled with stretches of no feeling at all. Britt says he was constantly running, 'hoping that movement would help me discover something better'..... Looking back on his decades of depression, Britt saw isolated flashes of happiness --the birth of his children, laughter, friendship-- but they were 'bright spots on what had been a more turbulent journey than I'd like to admit. The moments of happiness sustained my denial of something I had only recently begun to consider an invisible load'. In other words, he had been swimming with an anvil, and he was sinking by imperceptible increments."

What is wonderful about this article is that it ends with a description of how Britt is finally joyful about training and racing, and can finally resond to the beauty around him.

The author writes,

"When men talk about depression, one of the reoccurring themes is how it sucks the color and flavor out of life...the people you love don't make your heart sing, even though you know they should. The colors of the world are tarnished and dull. Britt ran the Boston Marathon once again, and realized at the end that although he'd run it many times, he had never literally seen the finish line; he ran right through it and focused on the next thing. "Now I can see things I never saw before - colors, scenery, people", he says,"...I never cared before. I never noticed the colors of a sunset. The electricity in a lightening strike. The glow of moonrise over a lake. They've always been there. But only recently have i begun to see them. And I am amazed".



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Previous thread on depression from LR:


"Depression: How does it feel?":
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=906685;search_string=depression%20fitnesscoach;#906685



-------------------------

Lauren Muney
certified physical fitness trainer
certified health coach
wellcoach
http://www.physicalmind.com

There is no escape from your life... solve the problems and get on with it.

"Just tell her you love her and you think she kicks ass" ~AndrewinNH

"I'm moving [Lauren] to guru status" ~Last Tri in 83
Last edited by: Fitnesscoach: Feb 12, 07 20:44
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [Fitnesscoach] [ In reply to ]
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Very interesting post. I wonder how many of us actually see ourselves in this article. Makes me wonder.

I also wonder what Ray's solution was. Was it a prescription, hypnosis, nutrition adjustment, etc...? Ray, if you're out there, let us know.

Thanks!
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [Fitnesscoach] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Lauren,

I think I wrote about, "smelling the roses along the way" in another thread.

As triathletes, we get so focused on the next race, the next workout, the reading on the powermeter, ticking off a box on the Excel spreadsheet, that sometimes we fail to recognize that the ultimate goal can simply be as simple getting out of bed and doing some training on that day, or for that matter, the next step in that workout.

So many people are so concerned about "performance on race day," when you have bragging rights and can establish your hierarchy in the public pecking order of a results based world that they forget that they are actually "performing" during training.

Its funny, but race day results can have a big impact on your self perception. I did a race this past weekend where I was 11th overall. Until I saw the results, I felt quite good about my race. My endurance was good, my fitness was excellent and my pacing was good. Then I saw that that I was 11th overall, and it changed how I felt about the race? Why on earth would this matter? Well, 11th is a lot worse than 9th in my mind, because 11 is not top 10. If 2 faster guys stayed home I suddenly finish top 10 and feel better about my race, and stroke my ego for no good reason. The ego is a powerful thing.

I had a 3 hour drive home solo to reflect on how silly this was. One moment I was feeling good about my race (based exclusively on internal evaluation), then the external world comes up and 2 measley places gets me somewhat bummed out. I had to take a step back to kick myself in the ass to realize how dumb this was.

I can understand if you are racing for a living or to make a national team...then it matters. But for the rest of us, the external world can distort our own view of ourselves...which is why when training solo, it is much easier to be objective and enjoy the day, rather than going from one workout to the next, constantly seeking performance and improvement and seeking self fulfillment in results only. It can be a powerful spiral that can suck up the most reasonable person.

Having said that, having goals and racing can be a lot of fun, and self actualization through racing (amongst other things), is not a bad thing...it just needs to be kept in perspective of the big picture of life.

Dev

EDIT: And another trick that I learned from a friend to avoid getting 'depressed" about results, is to clean the slate of PB's every age group. This means that at 40-44 or say 50-54, you aren't living in the past world of 25-29 year old PBs. This keeps the sport fun instead of constantly saying, "I wish I was as fast as when I was 28". It really allows one to accept the impact of time and aging and live in the present rather than being stuck in the studliness of the past, with no hope of ever getting back there...having said that, I set the bar pretty high for myself, by setting all time half and full Ironman PB's at 40...but the Olympic Tri and Marathon all time PB's are well out of reach. I can aim to set new 40-44 PB's for those events over the next 3.5 years...the best part is that I have not done either event since turning 40 16 months ago, so the first crack is an automatic PB :-)
Last edited by: devashish paul: Feb 12, 07 15:36
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [Ironmonkey] [ In reply to ]
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"I wonder how many of us actually see ourselves in this article. Makes me wonder...I also wonder what Ray's solution was. Was it a prescription, hypnosis, nutrition adjustment, etc...?"

Yeah, my thoughts exactly about people who see themselves. I can tell you I have seen it in person with several people.

The article states,
"After undergoing treatment for bipolar disorder and chronic depression... Britt's compulsion began to fade...'I took most of the early winter off, totally. It's a healthier me all around'. In other words, he now runs for fun, something he was unable to experience before".

Often the treatments include medications tweaked for the person's own biochemistry, sometimes counseling, and sometimes nutritional balancing as well. This usually takes a while as any medications start to work in the brain and body.

It's really fascinating, how the brain and body work. I've been reading new studies which talk about how [unipolar] depression and bipolar (up and down) may be related to metabolism, with the mood issues just as a symptom of how the body/brain is too hot or too cold.(ok, that's a simplistic way of describing it).

In addition, there's often an OCD aspect to depression also; I think it's because (if memory serves) both affect the amygdala in the brain.



-------------------------

Lauren Muney
certified physical fitness trainer
certified health coach
wellcoach
http://www.physicalmind.com

There is no escape from your life... solve the problems and get on with it.

"Just tell her you love her and you think she kicks ass" ~AndrewinNH

"I'm moving [Lauren] to guru status" ~Last Tri in 83
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [Fitnesscoach] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting indeed. Myself and my late best friend were both treated for depression for a short time during our lives. For me, athletics and endurance sports are therapy for depression.

I agree with the comments surrounding Armstrong- he strikes me as so intensely angry. Anger and depression are frequently linked.

Interesting insights.

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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"Anger and depression are frequently linked."

Please pardon me for acting like hostess of this thread, but this article really hit on something I've noticed as a theme recently: depression and anger.

Tom, you said the above -- I have the next thought for you: depression often manifests as 'anger'(not 'sadness' as many people think of depression). So when they feel themselves with an overwhelming day-to-day 'anger' (or agitation, or frustration), it never occurs to them that this internal turmoil is depression. It feels like something to "fight", as Ray Britt found.

Note that I said "fight": noticing deeply, this reminds us of "fight or flight mechanism": the same thing which is activated when we are under stress. So we might 'fight' (feel and/or express anger) or flight (sleep for days on a lethargic depression, or leave).

I agree that sports can be therapy for depression, but I also believe that understanding that some of us carry internal pain is a step towards making quality choices -- like not hurting ourselves, breaking up with S.O.s, not ignoring our kids, not overspending money in an effort to use 'stuff' to feel happy, etc.



-------------------------

Lauren Muney
certified physical fitness trainer
certified health coach
wellcoach
http://www.physicalmind.com

There is no escape from your life... solve the problems and get on with it.

"Just tell her you love her and you think she kicks ass" ~AndrewinNH

"I'm moving [Lauren] to guru status" ~Last Tri in 83
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [Fitnesscoach] [ In reply to ]
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I lived with a triathlete who was an addict for a few years. His therapist told him that all the training was just a healthier addiction than drinking 5 bottles of wine every night.
I think to some extent we are all unhappy about somethings, some people train, some drink, some put up a mask of having it all together, some crumble, some can deal with it.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [Fitnesscoach] [ In reply to ]
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Good thread, touching on a subject that many of us or one of our loved ones will face at some time in our lives. It's funny, when dev wrote his "smell the roses" thread, I really didn't get it. Makes a lot more sense now.

I've been told that depression is anger turned inwards. So to keep from being depressed, you must get rid of your anger. Maybe working out and competing serves as that outlet for many of us. Probably explains the reason why feelings of depression are so common after an IM or during a time when you can't train.


Coach at KonaCoach Multisport
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [Fitnesscoach] [ In reply to ]
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Wow.

Heavy stuff.

I can see the connection.

For me, all the years of training have been more about a deep sense of joy, full-fillment and satisfaction about just being physically active as well as setting personal goals and achieving them within realistic guidlines. I have trained and raced against more than a few who seemed much more possessed by it all then me. With them there seemed to be much more powerful, and perhaps darker forces at work.

On Saturday, I went cross-country skiing. For about 10 of the 20K I skiied I was all alone in the woods. It was an exquisitly beautiful winter day, light snow falling, but the sun peaking through the clouds. It was the kind of day that reminded me why I like to do this. There was nothing else I would have rather been doing on Saturday afternoon. It was a pure joy!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [Fitnesscoach] [ In reply to ]
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This article struck me as well. Ray has been a long-time columnist on xtri.com (interestingly, if you go there now under Age Grouper Cafe and click on Ray's name, you get a blank page). I've read his column in the past with earnest as he struck me as a person who 'had it all figured out', in terms of balancing work/family/life and triathlon.

I'll be honest and admit that I see a little of myself in Ray....but I would characterize my own experience as that exercise is a form of therapy for me. It certainly is an outlet for funneling any anger and frustration I have in my daily life into something that I view as productive.

Can it devolve into an unhealthy addiction? Perhaps.

This certainly makes me think.

__________________
JP

my twitter feed
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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Dev, this is one reason I threw in the IM towel. Was just too much effort for me. Interesting with Ray's article since I have exchanged notes with him for a few years since
I use his training log. Real nice guy.

Dev, just wait until you turn 50 and then look for PB's. :o) Now, one thing nice starting as late as I have, I continue to set PB's, even now. But, I have no results from when I was young. But, I only have a few goals. First, is train and race to have fun, and not get hurt!! I love trying to see if I can have no one older than me beat me. But, at the end of the day, no one cares really about our obsessive behaviors. Just got to keep in balance!! And sorry, my health, wife, family, friends and work area all more important than any race I do.

Dave

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [jpflores] [ In reply to ]
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"Can it devolve into an unhealthy addiction? "

Absolutley. I have seen it in more than few athletes - and people of all levels, recreational right on up to people who have competed at the absolute highest level in this sport and other endurance sports.

You know the ones that seem to have it best, are the ones that truly see it for what it is - it's play and it's a game. That's it. The best example that I can find of this in our sport is Simon Whitfield. If you have ever spent any time with Simon, you get that sense - that just like any kid he loves to play and to him it's a big game.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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"I think to some extent we are all unhappy about somethings, some people train, some drink, some put up a mask of having it all together, some crumble, some can deal with it."

and some people have dogs who make everyday better, no matter what!

After spending a few years in the company of addicted Ironman triathletes, one of which said "if you are enjoying the view then you're not going hard enough" I found myself drained and unhappy. I am in pursuit of balance and presently holding back on the athletic pursuits but feeling much better overall. I guess I wasn't depressed enough for that lifestyle. I am looking forward to returning to it, but much wiser (I hope) after an extended break.

I wonder what differences in motivation there are between men and women who pursuit endurance athletics. I have no insights so I'll shut up now.


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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [Terra-Man] [ In reply to ]
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"Probably explains the reason why feelings of depression are so common after an IM or during a time when you can't train."

Yes, exactly. You've been 'high' from training (dopamine + endorphins) and suddenly both of those are gone... plus one more aspect:

...after an IM or any other major event (wedding, having a baby, etc) you don't have the flutter of excited activity as you got ready for the evnt. The letdown (or depression) also may arrive as you sudden;y have time on your hands. The brain says, 'But wait! I'm used to preparing! What do I do now?!' ...this is a break in the habit-routine. The habit-routrine in itself is a dopamine-releaser.

So breaking a habit (like preparing for race) is biochemically difficult unless it's done in increments, which is quite difficult when it comes to racing. It's easier to break a 3-yr Saturday-Night-Pizza habit than it is to rest after an IM!

This is one reason why it's actually pretty healthy to do [gentle!] recovery training after races. It allows the body to continue some of its normal processes, albeit in a very infantile manner.

That being said, training for IMs isn't unhealthy in and of itself. As the article says, it's the "frenzy" (obsession/compulsion) that apparently fueled Britt (and may fuel others) which is the danger.

Lauren



-------------------------

Lauren Muney
certified physical fitness trainer
certified health coach
wellcoach
http://www.physicalmind.com

There is no escape from your life... solve the problems and get on with it.

"Just tell her you love her and you think she kicks ass" ~AndrewinNH

"I'm moving [Lauren] to guru status" ~Last Tri in 83
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [trailbait] [ In reply to ]
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"I wonder what differences in motivation there are between men and women who pursuit endurance athletics."

I'm looking forward to reading Pam Reed's book. She apparently had great insight. Lisa Batchen-Smith had some very interesting remarks in a long article I read on her also.

I respect the bravery of people who are aware and mindful as they battle. Depression isn't an 'evil thing' except that it steals lives: it's just 'a thing' if the person is aware --and taking [self-] steps towards helping him/herself live a quality life.



-------------------------

Lauren Muney
certified physical fitness trainer
certified health coach
wellcoach
http://www.physicalmind.com

There is no escape from your life... solve the problems and get on with it.

"Just tell her you love her and you think she kicks ass" ~AndrewinNH

"I'm moving [Lauren] to guru status" ~Last Tri in 83
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [trailbait] [ In reply to ]
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"I wonder what differences in motivation there are between men and women who pursuit endurance athletics."


that's a really interesting thought.
I don't have any insights either. I can't quite define what motivates me, except most of the time s/b/r feels good. Lauren will chime in and say "that's just endorphins!" ;)

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [Fitnesscoach] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I'm looking forward to reading Pam Reed's book. She apparently had great insight[/quote]LOL is all I can say.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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I totally agree. When I posted that question, I was being somewhat rhetorical. Triathlon, especially Ironman distance triathlon, is a sport which tends to encourage obsessive behavior, IMO. After all, more is more, right?

The trick is to balance that obsession with the rest of life's commitments and 'own the obsession' rather than be owned by it.

__________________
JP

my twitter feed
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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"It can be a powerful spiral that can suck up the most reasonable person."

Dev,

I re-read your 'smell the roses' post. It was great... but I want to offer an interesting thought: many 'reasonable' people are not caught up in the spiral. Perhaps we might consider something that the full Men's Health article discusses: the spiral may only come to those who are exercising the demons.

Someone very dear to me once said, "Any addiction is from a spiritual hole": I can make a biochemical connection that depression reduces a person to living ONLY in survival mode. For a depressed person, often that punishing training IS 'survival': survival from the anger. (again, reflect on how Britt described himself). One cannot smell the roses (a spiritual connection: beauty and gratitude) if the anger is eating himself from the inside!

Seriously, go spend the $5 to get the Men's Health issue. I only clipped some text for ST: it's a fuller article which discusses the topic.

Gotta go get a 'quality but not punishing' spin on my trainer ;)

Lauren



-------------------------

Lauren Muney
certified physical fitness trainer
certified health coach
wellcoach
http://www.physicalmind.com

There is no escape from your life... solve the problems and get on with it.

"Just tell her you love her and you think she kicks ass" ~AndrewinNH

"I'm moving [Lauren] to guru status" ~Last Tri in 83
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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"LOL is all I can say. "

Really? I know nothing about the book.



-------------------------

Lauren Muney
certified physical fitness trainer
certified health coach
wellcoach
http://www.physicalmind.com

There is no escape from your life... solve the problems and get on with it.

"Just tell her you love her and you think she kicks ass" ~AndrewinNH

"I'm moving [Lauren] to guru status" ~Last Tri in 83
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [Fitnesscoach] [ In reply to ]
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I read most of it.
It's got her story, obviously, but not very well written IMHO.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [Fitnesscoach] [ In reply to ]
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That being said, training for IMs isn't unhealthy in and of itself. As the article says, it's the "frenzy" (obsession/compulsion) that apparently fueled Britt (and may fuel others) which is the danger.

As someone who has suffered from depression and can trace a long line of melancholia and depression back through both parental lineages, I have a couple of comments. First of all, training for endurance events has a strange element of deferred gratification to it. Its strange because its not totally deferred - you definitely get some benefits from the training on a day to day basis, but the "real" reason you go back time and again is (theoretically) an event that is often months (sometimes even years) away. This requires a very odd combination: enough sensitivity to the gains made on a day to day basis that you can get yourself to stick with a training plan, but enough awareness and committment to the long term goals to ride out the down turns. The kind of OCD-ish behaviour that helps fuel many endurance athletes seems to assist with both of these requirements. On the other hand (as I can personally attest to), it also has the potential to turn nasty: miss your training goals (as I regularly do) and you can feel a slide into depression and even anger about that.

The other point I want to make was that its very hard to come to a solid conclusion about why exercise aids people trying to recover from or avoid depression. I know that after I took myself of Zoloft 6-1/2 years ago, I knew that I *had* to keep up a three-pronged strategy to be able to do without it: eat well, exercise a lot and socialize regularly. The problem with "exercise a lot" is that there isn't really a good metric for what that means, and when its so easy to read about genetic and situational outliers who get in 6-10 hours a day, one's own modest levels start to feel like they might not be enough. It also really galls me to think that the *purpose* of my exercise is perhaps not to do well in an event, but to stave off melancholy, which then can act as a negative feedback cycle on sticking with training plans. If we knew that X minutes of Y mg/liter of compounds A, B, C and D in your bloodstream could do the trick, it would much easier to quantify which parts of training are subsituting for SSRI's and which are solely about performance. But there is no such formula, and I know that for me, this creates a very hard to manage dynamic. One aspect of this is that I find it very hard to imagine exercising "enough" without races. The idea of going to the gym to swim for an hour at 9pm (which I am about to do) *just* to keep my mood elevated is enough to stop me going. The fact that I have races coming up and that I want to do well in them makes the effort to train bearable and worthwhile and not just some clinical strategy.



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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [jpflores] [ In reply to ]
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I read some of his columns too, and frankly came away thinking I could never have it together as much as this guy does. Weird how some things don't come through in someone's writing.

I'm a pretty happy, stable person, but I do know that I'm happier when I'm active. If I lay around all day -- even doing "fun" things like watching a bunch of favorite movies -- I tend to feel a little depressed (in the colloquial, not clinical, sense of the term).
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [dawhead] [ In reply to ]
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"The idea of going to the gym to swim for an hour *just* to keep my mood elevated is enough to stop me going. The fact that I have races coming up and that I want to do well in them makes the effort to train bearable and worthwhile and not just some clinical strategy."

I respect & admire your ability to be aware of your own needs!

I offer that maybe some others don't always need races to do this. I have a bipolar friend in PA whose sole reason for training (every time he does it) is because he knows it will keep his moods at bay. He DOES use training as clinical strategy! He trains at 4:30am without any race interest - solely to feel good. He will even plan a training (or even a hike) when he's feeling uncomfortable/angry/depressed/agitated. Knowing he's feeling uncomfortable will get him out the door - and back soon feeling better.



-------------------------

Lauren Muney
certified physical fitness trainer
certified health coach
wellcoach
http://www.physicalmind.com

There is no escape from your life... solve the problems and get on with it.

"Just tell her you love her and you think she kicks ass" ~AndrewinNH

"I'm moving [Lauren] to guru status" ~Last Tri in 83
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Re: "Exercising the Demons": Ray Britt, hard intensive training, and the underneath [jpflores] [ In reply to ]
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Same here. I discovered Ray Britt via, Dave (h20fun), and Ray seemed to be the king of the "More with Less" stuff.

Can anyone shed more light onto this? Is the info described in the article responsible for his "more with less" mentality and training or did his more with less mentality eventually become "more is more is more is more is more"?

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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