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"Born to Run" interview.
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http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/...st/51209.Born.to.Run

Many different things to discuss about this interview but what are you thoughts on his thoughts about running.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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Looking forward to listening to it, thanks!
I'm half through the book and love it.

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for posting this. I'm completely on board with this approach to running. I've been moving to progressively less shoe recently and I'm feeling great during and after my runs. I'm also running faster for the same effort. It just seems intuitively right. Looking forward to reading the full book.
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [Lactone] [ In reply to ]
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I am still run-walking in a minimal shoe and can't say I have proven it's the best way because I have put in any constant all running millage but I have to say I hurt less. Now I will not claim an ability to run down wildlife.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Now I will not claim an ability to run down wildlife.

Turtles count as wildlife ... I bet y'all could handle that?

Thanks for the link ... The book is currently on hold at my library, but I put in for it next.

"Isn't RandMart the old punk rock dude who had the crazy ex*? Then this post checks out"


* Not THIS ex, another one
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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he spoke at my running store a few weeks ago (being as he lives in town) and the store was packed.
I agree with him on a variety of points, and think he is crazy on others- but in all I'm glad for the discussion.
FWIW I had already been moving myself to a similar running style over the last year and in my specific and non-transferable case: It has made a huge difference.
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [hidayanra] [ In reply to ]
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anyone going with a more minimal shoe/barefoot technique who pronates????
I fear trying it as i went through years of injuries i was told were do to pronating when i was competing in junior high and high school

thanks
jim
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [jimcav] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a pronator historically. I don't have enough experience with this minimalist shoe running thing yet to have a conclusive verdict. I've been doing it for only a month so far. But in that time I've noticed that my feet and entire legs/glutes feel stronger. I've been supplementing the running with targeted core and lower body strength exercises and using Nike Frees as my walking shoes. This approach has seemed to work very well. But so far I've been doing only 25-40 mpw during the transition. It's easy to feel good when running low volume like that. The real test will be when I get my mileage over 50 mpw for several consecutive weeks.

Regarding the pronation, the biggest thing I've noticed in the minimal shoes is that I can feel every little move my feet make. If I land too hard, I can feel it. If I roll inward a bit, I can feel it. If I twist my foot at all when it's planted, I can feel it. If I toe-off too much, I can feel it. Thus it becomes much easier to sense any mechanics that might lead to the pronation or other inefficiencies in form and adjust for them. After a few weeks, these adjustments are baked in and you just run "lighter" without having to consciously focus on them. When I wore more built-up shoes, I could not sense most of these little movements and I just relied on the shoe or orthotic to fix whatever was out of order.

I've been running in the Nike Kintana Racers, which are really, really nice. I plan to move to the even more minimal Mizuno Universe 3 in July or Aug after they come out. Might supplement with the Vibrams at some point. I doubt I'll ever go fully barefoot. It's just not my style, but I respect it.

The key, as when making any significant change, is to incorporate it slowly. Also, don't just change the footwear. Look at your stride, strength, flexibility, etc. Shoes (or lack of them) by themselves won't be the answer. That said, running in a shoe with almost no heel feels kick ass.
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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The book is a fascinating read and I am surprised that there has not been more discussion on it here, esp. the idea from Barefoot Ted about putting on a triathlon using equipment/clothing from the late 1800s.

As far as pronation of the foot, McDougall doesn't believe it exists and argues that "pronation" and "overpronation" are words invented by Nike and others to convince us to buy running shoes. He is very convincing about the greed of running shoe companies and thoroughly trashes them throughout the book. He is a true believer now in the sandal approach. I recently saw a YouTube video of him running in the Native American sandals and using the Vibrams as walking "shoes."

I guess if this is an effective way to run that we will see it first catch on with triathletes in much the same way that aero bars were first used by triathletes.
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [Wideboy] [ In reply to ]
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It is indeed fascinating and I am happy to keep the discussion going.

What I have trouble with so far is the cushioning. I am running 60-90 miles year round, racing 5k-Marathon. Right now, I do 90% of my training in flats, in Nike Lunar Racers (which have some cushioning, yes). I'm 6"2, 162lbs. I could see myself running barefoot/Vibrams on grass but I am lacking the option here in NYC as the lawns are not open early am. I consider jumping the fence but I'm kind of certain about the outcome.
Meanwhile I hate supported shoes. I can run in them (say Asics DS Trainers or Noosas) but it's not fun anymore.
However, during highest mileage weeks and during winter I feel better with more cushioning (say Nike Lunar Trainer) during some runs and most long easy runs.
The author talks about how irrelevant a little rubber is compared to the impact forces. If that is true, am I just fooling myself?

_________________________________________________
CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [jimcav] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
anyone going with a more minimal shoe/barefoot technique who pronates????
I fear trying it as i went through years of injuries i was told were do to pronating when i was competing in junior high and high school

thanks
jim
What Lactone said.

I have low arches, severe overpronation, tried every kind of stability and then motion control shoes, wore custom orthotics for years still had chronic ITBS, and later chronic calf problems (started as a mtn bike injury).
I finally made the transition to altered gait (find the common ground of Pose, Chi, whatever), worked my way to minimal shoes and rarely have leg injuries any more. I also don't run slower and may actually run faster (prob from more consistent training and less pain). I run 4-5 X per week, 50-60 mpw.

I alternate between Inov8 Roclite 295 (a little heavier but still relatively minimal for a trail shoe) and Inov8 Xtalon 212 (for my hill repeat days or on mud / grass). Run in VFF KSOs once a week on easy run days (hurts to step on rocks though).

Caveats: YMMV, of course. I am a lightweight 5'6" 125 lbs. I only run on trails, farm roads - dirt, rocky, grass, sometimes muddy. Never pavement (yuck).

I have not read the book yet, it is on my list though. My personal experience says he's on to something though.
Last edited by: dogrunr: Jun 24, 09 6:14
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [dogrunr] [ In reply to ]
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People need to explore this, at the least. Don't assume that because you "overpronate" and have flat feet that you need motion control and/or orthotics. Personally, I've always been told in running stores I need stability shoes, except for the one time I was told motion control. I did buy them and have tried them. Only after reading bits and pieces of less shoe wear did I try lighter shoes. I've run in flats and aqua socks. And had good runs in them.

I think overtime, reliance on shoes and orthotics will weaken a foot. This seems very reasonable, much like if you always used a cane you may end up with a strong arm and a weak hip. It's worth trying a lighter approach.

There are people who have gone from their flat feet and big shoes to pose-type running with thin shoes and swear by it. It may not be for everyone, but I believe shoes should start small and grow as needed, not the other way around. I'm positive that many running injuries--most--are because of bad technique, excess wait, poor strength, etc. and yet we as a tech-based society tend toward the only technical solution, which is shoes, and this has a woefully pathetic efficacy rate.

Still dealing with knee pain if you told me a few years ago that I would ever run in flats and have a run that didn't end in agony I'd have not believed it, but it's happened. I personally experiment now with flats up through the motion control. I'm trying to find what is right in my circumstance, along more aggressively with technique, flexibility, strength, turnover rate, etc. For me it's been a multi-year quest into running without knee pain. I make slight but meaningful progress over time.
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [uli] [ In reply to ]
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This is where I hope to get - 60-70 mpw consistently in flats. I'm 6'0" and 153 lbs. Currently doing about half of my mileage on dirt trails and the other half on asphalt.
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [jimcav] [ In reply to ]
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"anyone going with a more minimal shoe/barefoot technique who pronates????
I fear trying it as i went through years of injuries i was told were do to pronating when i was competing in junior high and high school"

I still waver at times. I was looking at the Nike website the other day and had a twinge of doubt about my Brooks Mach 10. I have the odd advantage of being super dead ass broke so $100+ dollar shoes aren't even near my dreams so I have to stick with less. So far I think running shoe companies and the running scene as a whole are full of shit. None of what they say makes any sense.

As far as pronation goes I really don't think it is the big boogie man everyone wants us to think it is. You foot rolls inward, it's basic physiology. Do this experiment. Put you hand flat on a table and roll it inwards. Now put you hand on something soft and the same width of you had and roll it inwards. (WARNING! ILLITERATE NOT COLLEGE EDUCATED WORDS ABOUT TO BE USED!) When I do this my hand is harder to roll in when flat on the table because raising the hand gives gives my hand more of a range of motion. It has space to fall.

I no longer watch my form I just run and this what I am finding. My cadence is up. My speed is up because I can't just jog. My feet fall closer to my center of gravity. My foot land midfootish not on my toes or slamming down on my heel. I just cruise along a lot smoother then I used too.

I just think millions of years of evolution is better then any R&D/marketing department.


customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [uli] [ In reply to ]
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I first tried running in minimal shoe in 2005 after running my last marathon. I was only doing four to five hours a week and the transition was not an issue as my cushioned shoes wore out I just did not replace them. I had a few months of this before going to flats only when I deployed to Iraq. Though I could run on the dirt at the camp where I lived, it was much harder-packed in general. I built up to 80 miles per week from July to October but that was my limit in shoes with no cushioning. I was running up to 1:45 in a pair of Brooks T2s with three or four hundred miles on them and felt spectacular and then a few days later I woke up with very sore feet and lower legs. I took four days off, ordered a pair of NB light trainers and jumped back into training the following Monday. I think that if you can run everything off-road then you don't need cushioning at all.
If you are forced, by location or circumstance, to run on pavement then the cushioning makes a difference in the beating your legs and feet take.

Chad
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [jimcav] [ In reply to ]
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anyone going with a more minimal shoe/barefoot technique who pronates????

I have flat arches and extreme pronation. I have had foot (plantar fasciitis) and knee (patella tendinopathy) problems for the past 2 years without cease. Every 3 months or so I would get out my new super duper motion control shoes and test how far I could run without pain. On a good day, 4km, followed by enough pain to tell me it was too premature to run at this stage.

Saw an orthopedic, sports physicans, physios and finally an osteopath who got me some custom orthotics ($300), and told me to never go barefoot, even around the house.

In the meantime I stumbled across the barefoot concept, read Born to Run and a stack of web info on the barefoot philosophy. 4 weeks later I am now running 6 days per week, barefoot, or in Feelmax Neisas when the soles of my feet are too sore. My plantar fasciitis has gone, my knee problem is still there, but running, due to the low impact nature of this style of running, causes it no concern.

What I have found is that walking barefoot puts a bit of pronation stress on my knees, but running does not, because the platform is the forefoot, not the flattened foot. Therefore the foot arch and my resultant pronation is irrelevant when running because the heel only kisses the ground. With strengthening of the muscles and tendons in the foot from running, I am sure that walking will also be symptom free.

For the moment, I run in minimal shoes at most, walk in my running shoes and occasionally barefoot, and the orthotics are accumulating dust under the bed. Start slow, treadmill or grass, ramp it up to trails and mixed surfaces as soon as you can.

Its a lot cheaper than buying Brooks Beasts!!!
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [charlesn] [ In reply to ]
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"Feelmax Neisas"

I can't find anything on google. What are these?


customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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Found them and I am very interested.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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For all of you interested in the Feelmax Niesa this short article might be of interest.

http://runlikemonkey.com/...elmax-running-shoes/

Looks like Feelmax is launching a running shoe within the next week or so. I'm a bit torn between buying some Vibram's, Niesa's or holding off for the new Feelmax running version...

From the article...

"This is the most minimal running shoe I have encountered that still has traditional shoe styling without adding weight or sacrificing performance. The upper is incredibly lightweight and breathable more breathable than the Feelmax Niesa. The shoe rides very well on the foot, and with lacing you can control the snugness. But the fantastic improvement in this shoe is the sole. It is a fantastic balance of foot protection, flexibility, and grip."
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [moulli] [ In reply to ]
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Oh hell yeah!

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: "Born to Run" interview. [moulli] [ In reply to ]
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Me likey!


float , hammer , and jog

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