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"Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18"
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This is a Letter to the Editor in a local newspaper, The Spectrum, in St. George, UT. Thanks. The Article:

"Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18
The cyclists have taken over State Route 18. They're causing dangerous situations. Last week I had a close encounter on 18. I was traveling southbound when a northbound vehicle swerved into my lane to avoid hitting a cyclist. Had I not pulled off the road we would have collided, head-on.
After I regained my composure, I turned around to confront the cyclist. I explained to him that he came very close to causing a head-on collision. With no apology, he became very irate and expressed himself by using a few choice words, but may I add, mine were much more colorful.
If I'm driving 65 mph and a cyclist is in my lane, there is absolutely no way I'm going to swerve into oncoming traffic to avoid hitting him. He'll just have to wind up riding his bike in "cycle heaven."
In the past we've had to deal with the marathon, senior games and now we have to contend daily with hoards of cyclists. They're using our roads, therefore should be accountable by paying the Utah State Tax Commission as well as obtaining a license. A highway that has a 65 mph limit is no place for cyclists.
E. ZAWACKI, DAMMERON VALLEY"

I thought you all would be interested in this. If you'd like to read my response you can check it out here: http://www.trimoka.blogspot.com/...riding-on-state.html
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [mokallen] [ In reply to ]
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Well, obviously Mr. Z doesn't know that the overtaking vehicle does not have the right of way. He has also made a threat in writing and that can be used against him should he be involved in any future accidents.

Sadly, his opinion of cyclists seems to be in the majority.
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [mokallen] [ In reply to ]
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man, at first i was thinking "that cyclist missed a chance to change that driver's mind about bikes"

... but then i thought about what I did last time a driver thought it'd be cute to come inches from me with his mirror.


... and i realized I have no room to talk, and should probably work on my mannerisms in confrontations.

Is there a shoulder on this road? i start getting nervous on anything faster than 50mph with no shoulder.

Edit: i also agree the cyclist had nothing to do with the idiot driver trying to pass when he shouldn't have.


-Jason
______________________________________________
Is that all you've got? Are you sure?
Last edited by: jasondubose: Apr 12, 12 14:45
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [jasondubose] [ In reply to ]
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The whole highway has some sort of shoulder. Part of it has a very wide shoulder (8ft or so) and part of it has a pretty narrow shoulder (3ft) The problem with the narrow part of the shoulder is road debris.
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [mokallen] [ In reply to ]
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If I'm driving 65 mph and a cyclist is in my lane, there is absolutely no way I'm going to swerve into oncoming traffic to avoid hitting him. He'll just have to wind up riding his bike in "cycle heaven."

I've had a personal family matter recently where I've been so disgusted with law enforcement and the job they and the legal system do. It's as if their purpose has become to make sure they don't tread on the rights of perpetrators to the point that the rights of victims are entirely trampled. In a fair and just world where law enforcement didn't just play CYA, anyone who would write something like this would have spent their last moment behind the wheel of a vehicle.

Last edited by: bobby11: Apr 12, 12 16:07
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [mokallen] [ In reply to ]
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I actually agree with this part:

A highway that has a 65 mph limit is no place for cyclists.

https://www.miles4matt.run/
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [bobby11] [ In reply to ]
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I ride that same stretch of road at least weekly during the summer and there is plenty of room for cars and cyclists. It does amaze me when I ride that cars will go clear into the other lane giving me ten or more feet of room when passing, which I believe is much more dangerous than passing right next to me.

I have to admit if a car almost hits me and then confronts me after I am not going to be friendly and they will probably hate cyclists even more when we are done which is something I will have to work on.
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [M~] [ In reply to ]
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You left something important out --- a highway with 65MPH traffic and NO SHOULDER is no place for a cyclist. I cycle many highways but they have ample shoulder for me to ride on, otherwise, listening to you, I might just as well ride residential streets and stay of all highways. The biggest problem here in N. America is drivers have no patience or respect for cyclist, period. They think the road belongs to the automobile!!!
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [mokallen] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
They're using our roads, therefore should be accountable by paying the Utah State Tax Commission as well as obtaining a license

I'm so tired of this argument.

a) Even if a cyclist had to get a license, pay some sort of bike tax, it wouldn't change the situation. Cyclists would still be on the road. Maybe fewer recreational cyclists, but then we'd just have more fat people, who should then be required a fat person license since they are using my healthcare system.


b) A very high percentage of cyclists do own cars/motorcycles/drivers licenses. So they are paying as much if not more as any other vehicle driver in taxes, licensing fees, etc.




--
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [mokallen] [ In reply to ]
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This is a good discussion to have, even if it has to be held on an almost hourly basis. More letters like this will continue to polarize a few people, but we can hope that some people will realize that if you can't slow down for some pedestrian, cyclist, animal, or slow driver, then YOU have become a prisoner of your own making. Guys like Tony Kornheiser will always be around however.

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [M~] [ In reply to ]
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How about 60 mph?
55 mph?
50 mph?
What about 50mph limit but everyone drives 65 can I ride there ?
How about county roads or state highways without a shoulder?
Well can I ride on a bike path ?
I actually don't agree with you.

OK now for rebutal to me!
You dont post much so aren't as important as me
You are not as fast as me so I know more
Do you know who I am !!!!!!
Do you know who she is ????????
Google her!!!!!
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [mokallen] [ In reply to ]
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I feel that he has a point although kind of being an ass about it. Its kind of like a deer at night where if you don't see it or it Pops out, you look to avoid more damage but in the case of a cyclist, you probably have tons of time to see him or her and avoid. I ride on a state road where the speed limit is 55 so I don't think there is a problem riding on a state road in Utah. But a speed limit of 65 with probably nO shoulder would keep me off that road.

It really can go either way but I would they they shouldn't be riding on that road unless there is a shoulder and basically that guy is an ass about it.

Disco
South Bend, IN

Habitual Line Stepper..
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [mokallen]a [ In reply to ]
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I noticed that the cyclist was being an ass so I really don't know what should have been done. I guess be nice, wear a helmet and watch the cyclists?

Disco
South Bend, IN

Habitual Line Stepper..
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [dennis] [ In reply to ]
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dennis wrote:
How about 60 mph?
55 mph?
50 mph?
What about 50mph limit but everyone drives 65 can I ride there ?
How about county roads or state highways without a shoulder?
Well can I ride on a bike path ?
I actually don't agree with you.

OK now for rebutal to me!
You dont post much so aren't as important as me
You are not as fast as me so I know more
Do you know who I am !!!!!!
Do you know who she is ????????
Google her!!!!!

I suppose it depends on which state you are in. Pretty sure Maryland does not allow bicycles on roads with speed limits over 50mph.

That being said, we don't know what the speed limit is on State Rt. 18.
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [polarbear] [ In reply to ]
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polarbear wrote:
You left something important out --- a highway with 65MPH traffic and NO SHOULDER is no place for a cyclist. I cycle many highways but they have ample shoulder for me to ride on, otherwise, listening to you, I might just as well ride residential streets and stay of all highways. The biggest problem here in N. America is drivers have no patience or respect for cyclist, period. They think the road belongs to the automobile!!!

In Ontario "Bicycles are prohibited on expressway / freeway highways such as the 400 series, the QEW, Ottawa Queensway and on roads where "No Bicycle" signs are posted."

Now, the 401 has a HUGE shoulder and the speed limit is 60mph. But you would only catch me dead on that stretch of highway. Literally. Nobody would last more than 30 minutes biking on that shoulder. Obviously it depends on the highway. But I know from experience that there is a huge difference between a car going 100K/h and one going 70 k/h. But knock yourself out. I was just saying I personally agree with that one portion.

https://www.miles4matt.run/
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [mokallen] [ In reply to ]
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There are a lot of major events a long this road. St. George IRONMAN, several century rides, a marathon and I'm sure some others I don't know off the top of my head. As long as there are events people will come to train on the course and preview it. I think we as cyclists should just always be aware of whats going on around us, no matter the speed limit, and obey laws and be courteous to vehicles. I also think drivers should be aware of whats going on around them, obey laws, and be courteous to cyclists. Share the road. Everyone be safe out there.
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [M~] [ In reply to ]
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I was thinking the same thing but without picts of the road it's difficult to make an informed decision.

Personally I've never ridden on a road where the speed limit is 65.

jaretj
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [M~] [ In reply to ]
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M~ wrote:
polarbear wrote:
You left something important out --- a highway with 65MPH traffic and NO SHOULDER is no place for a cyclist. I cycle many highways but they have ample shoulder for me to ride on, otherwise, listening to you, I might just as well ride residential streets and stay of all highways. The biggest problem here in N. America is drivers have no patience or respect for cyclist, period. They think the road belongs to the automobile!!!


In Ontario "Bicycles are prohibited on expressway / freeway highways such as the 400 series, the QEW, Ottawa Queensway and on roads where "No Bicycle" signs are posted."

Now, the 401 has a HUGE shoulder and the speed limit is 60mph. But you would only catch me dead on that stretch of highway. Literally. Nobody would last more than 30 minutes biking on that shoulder. Obviously it depends on the highway. But I know from experience that there is a huge difference between a car going 100K/h and one going 70 k/h. But knock yourself out. I was just saying I personally agree with that one portion.


---

Haha,you don't ever want to come and ride on highways here in Oz,especially anywhere in Queensland north of Noosa where 100kph with no shoulder is normal.I've ridden the road from Brisbane to Cairns a few times and while it is getting better some of it is just madness.We used to share the road that is the Ironman Cairns bike course with trucks and trailers loaded with sugar cane and absolutely no shoulders.

Funny thing about roads in parts of Ontario and Quebec is that the freeways and highways with shoulders are the safest places to ride regardless of speed.I got taken into custody twice in Thunder Bay for riding on the highway out of town westbound.Stupid cops couldn't fathom that it was safer for me to ride on a highway with a shoulder than a secondary road without one.

I also got busted by the cops for riding on the freeway into Gatineau from Montreal.He pulls me over on the freeway with lights and siren on and then asks.."Where are you from?".I look back at the Australian flag flying over my trailer and say "Australia". He then tries to lecture me on how dangerous it is to ride on the highway and I say " You mean with this nice big lane all to myself?".He then points at all the traffic and says " Look at all the traffic,it is too dangerous" to which I relpied," Clearly you have never tried to ride into Buenos Aires on a Monday morning,this isn't traffic".He then started to get mad at me and told me to turn around and ride off at the exit that I had just passed to which I replied,"So is it safe to turn around in this lane and ride back down the highway on the wrong side of the road?"..At that point he started to see the flaws in his logic but I did what I was told and rode back down the highway,the wrong way,to the previous exit and found my way eventually to Gatineau Park..

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Last edited by: Ultra-tri-guy: Apr 13, 12 3:46
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [Ultra-tri-guy] [ In reply to ]
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You're missing the point. In places like Ontario or Michigan, bikes are prohibited BY LAW from riding on freeways. End of discussion.

/Ticketed for riding on a bike path after dark.
//Was there to stay out of traffic..In the dark
///All the reasonable arguments in the world don't mean s--- when the law isn't on your side.
Last edited by: M.E.T.: Apr 13, 12 6:20
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [mokallen]a [triscooteremu] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Long Beach, IN

I thought for sure you mis-typed the state so I had to Google map it.

Living the NW suburbs of Chicago I have been down to the dunes. Long Beach looks like a great place to run and an awesome place to swim. Biking probably isn't too bad either as you can go east and avoid most crowds.



Swim - Bike - Run the rest is just clothing changes.
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [mokallen] [ In reply to ]
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Don't agree with the author of the letter, but isn't some of this a backlash against the larger numbers of people who go out to race sites and ride the courses over and over again? I know this has been an issue with the IM Wisconsin course the last couple of years. The locals would be more likely ok with the event itself, but not so much the multiple weekends of people test-riding the course. This seems to be the trend over the last several years.
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [mokallen] [ In reply to ]
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When confronted with a slower moving obstacle in my lane and on coming traffic in the opposing lane, I simply slow down and wait for the opposing lane to clear in order to pass, thus avoiding a potential collision. But that's just me........
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [M~] [ In reply to ]
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Listen to this podcast about a guy who bicycle commutes from Ajax to Mississauga along the 401 on his bike.

http://www.cbc.ca/.../season-2-episode-4/ -- Forward to the 18:20 minute mark.

Pretty funny.

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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [bx3] [ In reply to ]
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bx3 wrote:
Listen to this podcast about a guy who bicycle commutes from Ajax to Mississauga along the 401 on his bike.

http://www.cbc.ca/.../season-2-episode-4/ -- Forward to the 18:20 minute mark.

Pretty funny.

That guy is f#cked! Seriously. Cutting across 3 lanes of 401 traffic?!!!!!!

https://www.miles4matt.run/
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Re: "Bicyclists shouldn't be riding on State Route 18" [mokallen] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with the driver in the sense that I think that cyclist should not ride on roads with a speed limit of 55+, or any road designated as an interstate highway. It just isn't safe, mostly because drivers are idiots.

In real-world driving situations on 2-lane roads, if one's lane is obstructed (partially or fully) and there is some oncoming traffic, the driver is obligated to reduce speed as necessary and wait until the oncoming traffic has passed before going around the obstruction. It's common sense, and the law. There is no world in which it makes sense for a driver to be permitted to simply swerve into the oncoming lane or plow through the obstruction (be it a moving one or a stationary one). Some people don't really grasp this concept--just yesterday I saw cars almost blindly pulling into oncoming traffic to pass a stopped city bus on a very busy road. Foolishness.

As far as the speed limit is concerned, to whomever made the comment along the lines of "why not 50? why not 45? why not 40?" the answer is that the line has to be drawn somewhere. Some of the best roads for riding are rural roads that have little vehicular traffic because they're so remote, but because of this they also high speed limits because there are very few things which might pull into a car's path, things are farther apart, and thus it is safe for cars to travel faster on these roads. I will certainly grant that a cyclist getting going 20mph or even 25mph could probably be killed by a car traveling at 50, 40, or probably even 30mph depending on the nature of the crash. At the same time though, the simple fact that cars are traveling that fast on a given road does not mean that road is unsafe for cyclists. Safety is dependent on the speed of cars, the number of cars, and the amount of room that the cyclists and drivers have.

Cyclist tend to self-select the roads that are safest for riding...sometimes cyclist don't have the best judgement though...

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