I'd start him on a steady diet of plyometrics and short, intense intervals (5x5min V02 max, 1min all-out x10, 2minx4 all-out, etc). Definitely start slow on the plyometrics though as people can easily get injuries doing those. He just needs to really stress those energy systems, but doing big gear work and FTP intervals aren't going to do it. He's going to have to do legitimately gruesome intervals for the magic to happen. Also, despite contrary belief, volume will make a huge difference. Most people need to ride their bikes more. In order to make serious gains once you start to plateau, you need to start adding 5+ hour rides (with SST and FTP intervals) to your schedule a couple of times a month (thank Hunter Allen for discovering or at least really vocalizing this). The muscles in your legs should be damn near shaking by the end of these rides.

I'm 52 and I never see anything above 135 on a bike. I can get to 155 on a 5k run but thats pretty much it. My resting HR is in the low 40's however. I figure my max HR is around the low 160's. I even had a stress test several years ago when I was 50 lbs overweight and had yet to start any kind of fittness programs, and I couldn't get above 150 at the time. Everyone's different and that includes mas HR.

As long as he doesn't have heart issues try a ramp test to exhaustion. Start at 150w, go up 25w/min and see what his avg. power and max hr is the last 1:00.

just recently got into cycling
250 watt ftp....

sounds like a normal human, give the guy a break. takes time to get better.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Do me a favor and reread my post. When you do, highlight every place you saw me mention max heart rate. Hell, look for anywhere I even mention heart rate in general. I'll give you a moment to do this....

Didn't find any, did you? Now, would you like to revise you ignorant post or stick by your misguided words?

you too, are out of your damn mind!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I'm probably on the high side. More likely a 250w 20 min threshold.

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"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." John Rogers

This is not the way to get help. Maybe you should've mentioned max HR?

How do you think max HR might effect his training zones relative to yours?
How do you think having him try to replicate your HR effects his effort relative to yours?

Why don't you try to match his resting HR? See how that goes.

If the guy is going to train by HR, have him do a test to establish training zones. You might mention to him that your HR has nothing to do with his.

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@christopher_borden •
Spinning Spoke • Dimond Bikes • Flo Cycling • Castelli Cycling

it's humorous when people post questions to forums asking for help or advice, then get all pissed off when someone answers in a way that they don't like.

Is he on any medications or has he seen a physician?

Your buddies heart rate has nothing to do with yours. His obviously pumps more oxygen rich blood volume per stroke then yours does so he doesn't need to pump as often as you do.

What he needs to do is test for his Max or LT HR and set up his training zones so when you are biking together going for Zone 3 or whatever, you can get into the same zones.

I assume you are referring to myself and the other poster. Just to clarify, I never asked a question, so I have no clue what you are talking about.

Didn't find any, did you? Now, would you like to revise you ignorant post or stick by your misguided words?

Less coffee for you, more coffee for the friend of the OP. Seriously, I don't think the guy was saying anything about your precious post - looked like he meant to respond to the OP and was only stating his heart rate and level of fatness.

"I'd start him on a steady diet...."

:)

Sometimes you gotta' lose the weight. Ask him what he weghed as a Senior in High School. I'll bet he was like 165-170.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

Exactly. I believe the guy responded to the wrong post, lets hang him by his heels.

This is good question... beta blockers would it make it tough to raise HR

Exactly

How the heck can this guy's anecdotal evidence be "misguided?" The only thing even remotely debatable in his post was "Everyone's different and that includes mas HR." That statement is pretty much true. Chris Athey (cjathey) has a HRmax of 200+ IIRC, and routinely races at 190+ and works out at 170-180. Mine is ever so slightly lower, but my LT is in the 180's (~184bpm 1/2 marathon avgHR in each open 1/2 mary I've done). I think the OP's anecdote plus mine pretty much validates Raym256's statement that everyone is different.

Why are you so incensed that this guy brought up maxHR? Granted, you didn't mention it, but it's totally relevant--if your mHR is lower, your workouts are generally going to be done at an even lower HR. You mention doing some "all-out efforts," don't you think that if someone were to legitimately go "all-out" on the 4x2:00 all out or 10x 1:00 all out, that they might get close to mHR? In order to go faster you need to train your body to function for a longer period of time at a high %max and/or improve your maximal capabilities so that functioning at the same %max as before you can go faster because your upper limit is higher. It sounds like this guy needs to do more of the latter, so in general your workout recommendations should help. Why get so upset when someone throws an additional term in there?

Cool your jets man. If you want to disagree that's fine, but please be less disagreeable when you do so.

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I tweet!

Im 34, on LSD rides i would be about 110bpm, 130 on hills, can reach 170 on some spinervals and hills where I kill it, i can recover back to 130-125 in less than a minute. running lsd i'm 130-135. intervals in the 150 range. 5k race about 160. compared to the guys I train with i'm very low. not that it matters. just my 2 cents

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Good point re meds: he isn't on anything.

Re weight--he is under 10% BF right now.

Re beginner & lack of power: he has been "riding" for a few years, but mainly spin class things & 2-3x a week for < 2 hours. He is a newby in that never rides with others, zero bike handling skills, and the idea of holding a wheel no-matter-what is completely foreign to him.

Re HR vs power--he doesn't have a power meter & is familiar with HR threshold training. Probably the best place to start would be there.

Re Plyometrics---great advice, thanks!

Lots of good ideas to build on here. Thanks everyone!

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"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." John Rogers

Good points Zack.

Here is a followup question based SOLELY on HR: can someone be "cycling fast" (sprints/accelerations/jumps) with a low HR? All of my friends who are sprinters seem to have hummingbird hearts---they can get into the 220s on an acceleration/sprint, and then recover down into the 150s or so pretty quick---they seem to have huge upside. Most of my climber friends are the opposite--they can sit on climbs at 130-150 all day (the long 5-25 mile climbs we have here in SoCal in the San Gabriels/Santa Monicas) long, but their jumps are pretty weak (though their recovery is great).

My friend is really, really wanting to get into racing, but I'm at a bit of a loss as to which direction to push him based on my limited knowledge of his physiology & which area of cycling would be best for him to focus on.

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"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." John Rogers

Just a thought. Has he tried a different HR monitor? Maybe it's not working right? Otherwise I would agree with Jackmott, your friend just needs more riding to get his heart in sync with his legs.
What's his HR while playing soccer?

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"Sometimes it's just easier to do it the hard way."

I've never seen a study that has any correlation between heart size and any factor that would contribute to performance. As long as you have a decent cardiac output, it can be from a small heart beating fast, or a large one beating slow.

His best best bet is to just try different things and see what he's good at.

Why push him into a specific area? I think he should just have fun and participate in the events he thinks are interesting. At face value, we are all about average. So might as well have fun. Now, if he is fortunate and has a big motor, he will figure that out in short order. Winning tends to be fun, and will gravitate to those events.

The way you describe your friend has me puzzled. With the background in soccer and lacrosse, I'd expect him to be more fast twitch with loads of power. The guy you describe sounds more like a tall cross country runner. If you have long 5-25 mile climbs, tell your friend to stand on his pedals and hammer until he pops. See where his heart rate goes. . .