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a Dad that needs help
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ok i'm not a coach and I struggle with my form and running on every run but this is about my daughter and we need help.

Shes 9 and has been running with me and the school since june, no she doesnt run everyday but she plays soccer,softball and cycles she is very active but since June her 1 mile times have progressively gotten worse, shes gone from 9ish minutes to 10+ minutes on any given night but she doesnt know that, I dont always tell her the times.

I am not concerned with time as much as I am about her getting side pains(side stints) on every run and cramps so bad she has to stop and walk. tonight we didnt make it 400 feet and it hit her so hard we walked the rest of the mile. She is devistaded because she knows her runs are getting worse, she is also now having some leg pains.

Ok for the pre-run we hydrate 30 minutes before the run with 8oz of water ,she uses the bathroom and then we stretch for 10 minutes we try to start out slow and workup to race pace. I think shes not breathing right too shes doing short puffs and breaths i tried to teach her the 1 breath for 3 strides and she does it and then hyperventilate breaths for the rest of the run.

she has a 1 mile race in November and she wants a sub 9:30 which is her PB.
So help a dad out, her mom is not a runner so what do i do? any advice?
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Re: a Dad that needs help [jetta-the-hut] [ In reply to ]
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So in the recent past she has been able complete 1 mile in 9:30. The cramps/ side stitch is new?
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Re: a Dad that needs help [jetta-the-hut] [ In reply to ]
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Try running in the AM with her. I always get cramps if I run in the afternoon for some reason; morning is fine. I do not know why that occurs.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: a Dad that needs help [squid] [ In reply to ]
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yeah this is new she can run the mile with no problems shes even done 1 1/2 a few times but like tigerchik posted it is usually at night when we run, if we go earlier it doesn't happen. I didn't even think of that. weird???
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Re: a Dad that needs help [jetta-the-hut] [ In reply to ]
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That is interesting. I was wondering if maybe she is too tired in the evening from her other activities of the day.
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Re: a Dad that needs help [squid] [ In reply to ]
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maybe, she cried almost the whole way home on the walk. She has set her goals so high and shes not meeting them so shes devistated. She told me she loves to run with me, but she feels like shes not good enough to be running with me, that she sucks at running and shes not perfect. i explained all the normal dad stuff and she felt better by the time we got home but man what do you do.
I told her we needed to take a break from training for little while and just run for fun, if shes hurt or outta breath, we walk.

But i had another plan of doing a 3 mile (SLOW) run/walk with her to show her she can do it, and convince her like I told her last night that she is awesome, and one of only a handful of kids that could run a mile at all.

I think she really needs a good motivational talking too or a confident fun run to boost her back up so she doesn't ditch running all together.

I told her also that I hurt on every run,every single one. i hurt during and after that maybe its just our bone structure or muscle mass? I'm not sure.

were going to try and do another short run tonight before dark this time but if we dont do that we may try to do the 3 mile walk run tomorrow.
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Re: a Dad that needs help [jetta-the-hut] [ In reply to ]
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If you are saying that if you go running with her in the morning things are fine, it sounds like its her activities during the day that are causing her (along with a few other things) to not do well in the afternoon. I don't think you have to do a TC and knock out 5 miles before 5am (Dang I wish I could) but try running tomorrow morning vice tonight as it seems like tonight won't be all that different than your previous experiences, and if shes good to go, you got yourself a plan, typically races aren't in the afternoon anyways.



When someone pulls laws out of their @$$, all we end up with are laws that smell like sh!t. -Skippy
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Re: a Dad that needs help [jetta-the-hut] [ In reply to ]
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OK I'm all for kids being active, and goal setting and such, but maybe she's putting too much pressure on herself. If her legs hurt sometimes, it's because she's GROWING. Growing pains are not a myth, right?

Maybe give it a rest for a bit, and get her trying something different for a week or two, like ice skating, or swimming or PLAYING. It might not be the running that she loves, but the time she spends with you... so go spend some daddy-daughter time NOT running. Take her to a movie.

She's 9 - full of drama. Heck my 6yo is too. ;-)

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS
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Re: a Dad that needs help [jetta-the-hut] [ In reply to ]
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It could be that she is eating too much during the afternoon or eating too soon before your evening runs. Evenings kill me...about the only things I can eat for HOURS before running are bread w/ pb, a banana, or a powerbar. When I eat a real lunch, even at noon/1 p.m. I feel really shitty running at 6 p.m.
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Re: a Dad that needs help [remaven] [ In reply to ]
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Some good advice. I would add stop running the mile and stop timing her. Take the pressure off her and stop her putting pressure on yourself.

Run a different route, shorter but do laps, longer but don't push it. Put the enjoyment back into it before thinking about times.

Pick a subject to talk about and have her speak to you whilst running. It helps moderate breathing and will prevent hyperventilation.

Just break it up and make it different so she can relax.
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Re: a Dad that needs help [jetta-the-hut] [ In reply to ]
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one she's 9 which means she still in elementary school.... what time does she eat lunch? What time does she have a snack? Is she allowed to carry a water bottle with her in school?
My daughter is a gymnasts.. and we had to make sure she ate properly and drank ALL day long.. you cannot make up for dehydration by just drinking 30 minutes before you go run...
Try making sure she's drinking ALL day long and like other poster said... stop timing...
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Re: a Dad that needs help [armycyclist] [ In reply to ]
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yeah she doesnt drink enough I'm certain. She carries water to school but she only drinks at recess and lunch and she eats a good lunch followed by a snack at 3pm. we then eat at 5:30 -6:45pm and run around 7:30pm.

I talked with her tonight and were going to take a break and do some soccer stuff, she has a game tomorrow and then we have a pig picken at 3 so i thought we might ride our MB bikes on the beach before hand. Its just me and her tomorrow,her mom broke her foot so shes got me all day long! we might even get in a short swim before the ocean gets to cold.
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Re: a Dad that needs help [jetta-the-hut] [ In reply to ]
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That's great to hear, please keep up in the loop... remember it's more about her spending time WITH YOU than hitting some timed goal... Enjoy the time, before you know it she'll be 18 and heading off to college...

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS
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Re: a Dad that needs help [jetta-the-hut] [ In reply to ]
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Pain, tiredness, emotional, times getting worse....... It sounds like overtraining and I think she should really back off a bit. I think it's GREAT that she's active and fit, but maybe tomorrow instead of soccer, then MTBing, then swimming ..... you could take her to the movies or for an icecream or something?? She's just 9, she's got the rest of her life to be disappointed in herself ;)
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Re: a Dad that needs help [AndyPants] [ In reply to ]
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remember it's more about her spending time WITH YOU than hitting some timed goal... Enjoy the time

I'll second that

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Re: a Dad that needs help [squid] [ In reply to ]
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we had a great day, got up at 7 and did the soccer thing came home and cooked some brownies together then made breakfast for mom(hurt foot) let our food settle and hit the bikes around 11. went right to the store and got water - diet coke and about 4 different kinds of candies.we rode straight to water front and grabbed a swing. we sat and pigged out on candy and water and i showed her how fun diet coke and sugared candy is. She sat in bird poop so i had to spray her bike shirt down, but shes a lady so i couldn't take it off to clean it. After about an hour of sugar and swinging we got back on the bike and went down to a wood boat show, and hit the pier going out to the intercoastal. sat and talked for a few and decided we needed to find some rocking chairs.

we jumped back on the bike and rode to the state ferry that goes from southport to carolina beach and sat and rocked and talked to all the tourist going onto the ferry. we were there till 2:45 UH-OH pig picken in 15 minutes, jumped back on the bike rushed home took showers and made it with 30 seconds to spare.

We tore up some good ol fashioned carolina bbq and ribs with slaw and hush puppies and made a huge mess. She ran and played with friends and i got some grown-up time.

we were both in the bed early last night we were worn out. but man what a day! Here are some picutres we took while riding around.







Last edited by: jetta-the-hut: Oct 10, 10 20:06
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Re: a Dad that needs help [jetta-the-hut] [ In reply to ]
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That's AWESOME! What a great day ;-)

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS
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Re: a Dad that needs help [jetta-the-hut] [ In reply to ]
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She sat in bird poop

ah, good times!
Seriously that's awesome! Fast mile times are great, but having fun hanging out all day with your dad is better. In 10 years she'll forget about her mile times (unless she gets a college track scholarship) but will remember days like this one for the rest of her life.

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Re: a Dad that needs help [jetta-the-hut] [ In reply to ]
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Is this for real? If it is then the title of the thread says it all....Dad needs help.

This child is 9 years old. Nine. Let her be a kid.

I'm sure she tells you she wants to do these things but that's just her trying to tell Dad what he wants to hear. Nine year old kids shouldn't be worried about PB's and getting a run, bike and swim in for their workouts.

Put the watch away and do something else. Kids will find their own place, you can't find it for them despite how much you might want it.
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Re: a Dad that needs help [Demagogue] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Is this for real? If it is then the title of the thread says it all....Dad needs help.

This child is 9 years old. Nine. Let her be a kid.

I'm sure she tells you she wants to do these things but that's just her trying to tell Dad what he wants to hear. Nine year old kids shouldn't be worried about PB's and getting a run, bike and swim in for their workouts.

Put the watch away and do something else. Kids will find their own place, you can't find it for them despite how much you might want it.


this is by her choice, her school started the timing issue with Project Fitness, and whats wrong with a kid wanting to better herself. We do other stuff this just happens to be her favorite thing to do.

Theres an article in Runners World about a kid that has already competed in 4 Full Ironman races and a bunch of sprints and olympics, but hes only 16.

She sees her dad training and is already an active kid and it affords us spending some time together. She doesnt run every night. But she can tell if shes not running good or is hurt.

She is also 6 year student of dance,ballette, Acro, and Point, she also plays soccer and softball, all of which i also help with. running is as much her passion as the others.

And I promise you when she makes the decision to take on her first triathlon I'll be there with her too. She tried last year but me and my wife decided she wasnt ready for them.
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Re: a Dad that needs help [jetta-the-hut] [ In reply to ]
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I've also got kids (6, 8) who are learning to run with me. I use a "learn to run 10k" program, but I have no intention of finishing it and I think just a few km is enough. We don't have any goal in mind, no PBs, just getting to a higher fitness level where they can run continuously for a short time. The kids at the school recently did a charity run, and only 10% of the kids could "run" more than 500 m without stopping and gasping for breath. The kids recently did a run/walk of 5 km for charity. Many adults could not even do that. But I digress.

I would suggest going for a run right BEFORE dinner. That is when we do it. Don't take any water either, unless you're going for a run over an hour in duration. Otherwise, you're asking for trouble. I don't know of any athletes who eat dinner then an hour later, go for a hard run. For myself, I cannot run on a full stomach at any speed without getting a stitch if I have eaten a meal within the previous 3-4 hours.

Even better, do your run first thing in the morning before you eat breakfast. You would have enough glycogen stores to do a good run at that time, without having to eat anything. You'd have to put her to bed earlier, but if it works better for you than before dinner, that's the way it is for you.
Last edited by: karencoutts: Oct 14, 10 13:11
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Re: a Dad that needs help [jetta-the-hut] [ In reply to ]
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When I was a kid I played sports about 300 days a year and developed OCD. Too much activity is not always good. You should be teaching her to not compare herself to others and go at her own pace and enjoy the activities. Not create artificial time goals that will either get her injured or upset. Also stretching should be done after the workout, not before.

Ride Scoozy Electric Bicycles
http://www.RideScoozy.com
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Re: a Dad that needs help [msuguy512] [ In reply to ]
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thought i''d dig this up to update everyone, my daughter took a big break from running until a fun mile poped up in our area, we didnt train we only took our dogs for short runs a few nights a week,no schedule,no timing. She finished the 1 mile fun run in 8 flat without me running with her. 2 months later shes invited to run a race with Girls on the Run program right in the middle of softball season, she does her own pacing and running schedule and i go only as a run partner, she places 11th in the race with a time of 31 minutes, i was stoked, almost no training and a 31 minute finish in her first 5k. We celebrated like she took first.
Fast foward to last weekend for the freedom run, 91* out she finishes with a time of 34:08 which to me is still awesome and her mom was amazed at her time since it was so hot. We hung out for a friend of ours who always finishes first or second overall in 5ks to get her trophey & to our suprise my daughter took 1st in her age group. 6-13 year olds.

So i guess the stepping back and letting her find her groove and her style running and leaving the watch at home did really help.

just wanted to give thanks for the help.
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Re: a Dad that needs help [jetta-the-hut] [ In reply to ]
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That is awesome, I am so happy you posted an update.

Keep smiling (for some reason I picture you with a huge grin on your face when you were posting this)...

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS
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Re: a Dad that needs help [jetta-the-hut] [ In reply to ]
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Fantastic! Tell her congratulations.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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