I don't know. If they are noticing a change in how their clothes fit than I would agree with them. When I first started lifting weights I put on a lot of muscle...i wish I had my bicep measurements that we did before I started and 4 months later (this was 20 years ago...and not really in an effort to lose weight). And in the past year or so that I have started to swim more regularly and swim a lot harder sets with a lot of power sets, my back has gotten bigger. I look at pictures of me weighing 135 at IMAZ two years ago and pictures of me at 135 last summer, and I was noticeably skinnier last year. I think women who hit the weights for the first time will see an increase in muscle more so than men, because women don't usually do muscle building activities.

I tend to agree to some extent that this gets thrown around a lot as an 'excuse' or reason why someone isn't losing weight. And I also know how very difficult it can be for high level "strength" athletes to add muscle, which does seem quite impossible that doing a 30 minute weight circuit 2x/week could suddenly pack on 10 lbs of muscle.

However, I also believe very strongly that there are some significant differences between men and women when it comes to exercise and weight loss. I repeatedly see men posting on tri boards stuff along the lines of "I lost XX amount of pounds by simply marathon/ironman/triathlon training..." Yet I repeatedly read & hear from women who still struggle to lose weight (or even maintain) even while training for a marathon or ironman.

In my own little experiment, N=1 (or maybe 2?), DH and I trained together for IM Lake Placid. We followed similar plans and neither made significant changes to our diets, if anything, I watched my diet much more closely than he did.

Over the season, he lost 20 pounds (and wasn't that heavy to start with), and I gained 4 pounds, but went down a dress size. Make sense? No, at least not to me. But it does tell me that something totally different is going on physiologically.

I am just anxiously awaiting science to figure out why so maybe then they can help us endurance athlete women figure out the key to losing weight!!!

In my N=1, I had been trying to lose some weight by watching my diet, lifting weights, and upping my cardio. I either maintained my weight or even gained a few pounds even though I felt more fit/healthy and looked more toned. The next time I tried to lose weight, I continued watching my diet but did not do any weights. I did a lot of harder intervals because I was in a 3x/week boot camp. I lost 20 pounds.

It's very common for women to maintain, lose just a few pounds, or gain weight while doing lots of cardio (training for IM, marathon, or just doing tons of spinning or Zumba at the gym).
My personal experience: got the leanest I have ever been in my life after I stopped triathlon training and switched to high-intensity interval training and kettlebell strength training. 15 hours a week of cardio down to 2 hours a week of HIIT and kettlebell and I lost weight AND body fat and saw my abs for the first time.
All the cardio makes you eat more. All the cardio makes you think you have to eat high carb/low fat. And all that steady state cardio doesn't do anything to keep your metabolism up after the exercise is over.
I tell my weight loss clients that they need to pick a goal: fat loss or a race goal. They are not necessarily compatible. Training for sports performance is not the same as training for fat loss. If you want to lose fat, don't train for a long distance triathlon. There are better ways to lose fat. If you want to do a long distance triathlon, don't plan on losing a lot of fat. Wait until the race is over.

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Jessica

Newcastle University scientists have come up with a new way of losing weight using a component found in seaweed. Their research shows that when the dietary fibre found in sea kelp was added to normal foodstuffs such as bread and biscuits the intake of fat by the body was reduced by over 75 percent. The research project which is funded by the Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council and being led by Dr Iain Brownlee and Prof Jeff Pearson involves isolating the compound alginate and adding it to regular foodstuffs. They claim that it was better at stopping the body from absorbing fat than existing weight loss treatments.
The interesting thing about this weight loss treatment is that it is different in that it is not a tablet to be taken every day but will just be added to a whole range of foods which overweight people will eat normally along with their regular meals. The idea is that in the long term many different types of bread, biscuits and milk shakes could be produced with this fat reducing compound as fat busting side dishes. So far the treatment has only been tested with an artificially made gut in a laboratory but the scientists are now looking for volunteers.
The real test of whether this special fat reducing food is effective is in whether the volunteers find it acceptable and practical to eat as part of their normal diet. The scientists said that they have already baked bread with the alginate compound and found it to be tasty.
In fact this is not the first bit of weight loss research that we have come across as Ukmedix News which makes use of seaweed compounds. We had previously reported that a company was developing a product made from the laminaria digitata variety of seaweed which would expand in your stomach and give you the feeling that you were already full.

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Weight-loss spas can help you develop healthier habits that will help you lose weight, but it's important to pick the right spa. In general Destination spas (sometimes called health spas) are a much better choice than resort spas if you want to lose weight.
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Controlled or customized calorie counts so you know exactly how much you're eating.

Daily lectures to help you make improvements to your lifestyle, including diet, exercise, and stress-management.

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Don't expect to lose a lot of weight -- ten pounds -- in one week. Destination spas have dramatically changed their food philosophy since the "fat farm" days, when everyone was on 800 calories a day and rigorous exercise. This approach may cause rapid weight loss, but it also slows down the body's metabolism so that you gain weight rapidly when you return home. And some of the loss might be muscle.
The emphasis now is changing your lifestyle, learning healthy habits you can live with, and taking them home where you continue the process.
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While you can lose weight at most destination spas, look for the style, approach and price that suits you. Here are some examples of the various approaches:

Highly focused weight-management programs with medical support are found at Hilton Head Health Institute, Pritikin Longevity Center & Spa, Cooper Wellness Program and Duke Diet & Fitness Center. Canyon Ranch has medical staff and lets you focus your stay on weight-loss or executive health.

The Oaks at Ojai (affordable) puts everyone on a strict 1200-calorie a day diet.

Luxury spas Cal-a-Vie and Golden Door customize the calorie counts for every guest, including those who want to maintain or even gain.

Affordable weight-loss spas include Fitness Ridge, New Life Hiking Spa and The Oaks at Ojai.

At Rancho La Puertaand Lake Austin Spa Resort, you can have as much food as you want -- and it's EXCELLENT. You can lose weight on the healthy, low-fat food, you have to be the enforcer.

Red Mountain Spa usually lets you eat your fill, but during "Re-energizing Weight-loss" Weeks" the focus shifts.

The Ashram is a no-frills throwback to the "fat farm" days, with 800 calories and all-day hiking for a week, with the goal of losing 8 to 10 pounds.

Some spas like New Age Health Spa and The Raj offer special fasting programs. You will lose weight, but the primary focus is detoxification.

Prices at weight-loss spas range from $1200 a week to $8,000 a week, depending on the luxury factor, the degree of customization, and the depth of staff and programming

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My personal experience: got the leanest I have ever been in my life after I stopped triathlon training and switched to high-intensity interval training and kettlebell strength training. 15 hours a week of cardio down to 2 hours a week of HIIT and kettlebell and I lost weight AND body fat and saw my abs for the first time.
All the cardio makes you eat more. All the cardio makes you think you have to eat high carb/low fat. And all that steady state cardio doesn't do anything to keep your metabolism up after the exercise is over.
I tell my weight loss clients that they need to pick a goal: fat loss or a race goal. They are not necessarily compatible. Training for sports performance is not the same as training for fat loss. If you want to lose fat, don't train for a long distance triathlon. There are better ways to lose fat. If you want to do a long distance triathlon, don't plan on losing a lot of fat

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That's good to know! By and by, I checked my weight at the gym today, and I have gained two pounds over the past two months - doesn't sound like a lot, but I am training 10-12 hours per week and my measurements are the same or getting smaller in some places. Hopefully in the spring/summer when I start adding speedwork to my training, I will slim down a bit to a good racing weight. I guess the high intensity interval work is key, but everything I've read says that this type of training should not make up a huge amount of your training due to increased risk of injury...but when I was doing boot camp I didn't get injured at all. I've had more trouble with injuries since I gave up the high intensity training. For you, does high intensity mean anaerobic threshold-type work?

That's not true: all exercise has an associated EPOC - slightly elevated oxygen consumption (and thus elevated calorie burning) post exercise.

Adding muscle has a larger effect as it burns calories all day.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

For me, yes...high intensity means anaerobic threshold and balls to the wall type training. I have yet to get back into any kind of triathlon training because I like being lean and I don't want that to change. But I am thinking about training for an Olympic distance (no more IMs!) using high intensity training during the week (never more than 30 minutes of training at a time) and long and slow on the weekends.
If any type of program makes one prone to injury, it's high volume, not high intensity. You don't generally get "overuse" injuries from a 20 minute sprint session. You get it from 50 miles a week of LSD running.
As for boot camps, they usually work on all-over strength and it is varied, so it SHOULD make you stronger and LESS injury prone.

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Jessica

\

You are absolutely correct. I should not have said "doesn't do anything". I was speaking metaphorically. All exercise does cause EPOC (excess post-exercise oxygen consumption). But resistance training and circuit training raise it more than steady-state cardio, which is one reason why I contend that training for a long distance triathlon is not the best way to lose fat.
You are also correct that adding muscle helps you burn more calories throughout the day, but the "muscle factor" is not the only reason that EPOC is higher after resistance or circuit training. It's also a result of the intensity, regardless of amount of muscle mass.
To the OP, at least your clothes are fitting better and your measurements are good. I wouldn't step on a scale again unless your clothes start getting tight!

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Jessica

yeah, 'cause the top 100 finishers at kona are always chubby as hell..





i'd say the REAL difference is that it is more difficult for the average AG athlete to control their appetite and nutritional intake during endurance training than those who train for fitness only (shorter, more intense workouts). the "i just ran/cycled for 3 hours so i can eat anything" mentality can be hard for many people to break, and a minority take the time to really educate themselves about what they put in their mouth.

i can't remember the particular article (something about diet vs. exercise for weight loss) in which the author stated a friend of theirs was complaining they weren't losing weight despite doing 3 mile runs a few times a week. turns out that she and the friends with whom she ran would stop at starbucks afterward for a 500cal muffin and 400cal frappucino, having "earned it" by doing a <300 calorie-burning run.

cheers!

-mistress k

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__________________________________________________________
ill advised racing inc.

What is up with this paleo, anti-cardio thing? Let's all put some meat on a spit and then walk around slowly with some occasional sprints so we can lose weight. Like that's a more sane and enjoyable approach to life.

Once again, I have to thank Amstel for reading my blog and commenting on it on the womens forum. I feel so special! And popular! I can't speak to what other people are doing, but after having a baby, my body composition was a nice estrogen happy blubber party. After weeks of working out, my weight stayed relatively the same but I noticed my body composition was changing and my clothes were getting looser. But the scale stayed the same. Until the past two weeks when I started to drop weight. I wasn't in good enough shape to train well initially, but now that I'm getting fitter, I can train better and my body is getting more muscle and the weight is starting to drop and I'm back to my pre-pregnancy weight now.

Everyone is different and has their own motivations for what they are doing. Weight loss and body fat composition are not my biggest goals.

Cheers!

You were just going to try to ignore my thread weren't you??? Then it became popular so you just had to chime in.

Since you mentioned it, I look forward to seeing whittle ittles pictures next week. It seems like it has been forever!!!

Wittle ittles! Most precious baby on the planet and best thing that ever happened to me. Stop it! I'm going to lactate and I'm not even breast feeding anymore. What is hilarious about your photo comment is whenever I speak with the grand parents they want to know when I'm going to put more photos of the baby on my blog. Either way, more photos coming soon! Don't read my blog if it annoys you.

I edited my original response because it was so snarky I could have gotten kicked out of the womens forum which would have been too ironic for words. And I have something nasty brewing about Amstel being a chubby chaser but I have to stop myself... oh it hurts!

Erika, didn't mean to make it seem like I was picking on you! Sorry if you felt at all stepped on. I am not on ST much so I wasn't aware that there was behind the scenes drama attached to this thread. I was just pointing out what I see incredibly frequently among female age group triathletes, even when they eat right and have a calorie deficit.
Yes, we are ALL different and we all love different things. For me, yes...it is more enjoyable to eat paleo and spend 1-2 hours a week exercising and be lean and feel awesome. It changed my life and now I can maintain a body comp that I never could as a long distance triathlete, and with little to no effort. That works for me in MY life right now, as I am a business owner and single mom with 4 kids (I am also a college student at the moment). But that is ME. Other people really enjoy spending more time exercising and don't want to eat paleo. Nothing wrong with that as long as it works for you! And lots of people LOVE tri training and that is AWESOME. I used to love it too, and I would never want to discourage someone from doing it if that is what they love! I was only trying to suggest that IF your PRIMARY goal is fat loss, there are better, faster ways to achieve that than long distance triathlon training.
I feel the need to stick up for women sometimes, as I feel it's unfair to say that if they don't lose weight or if they gain weight while training, then it MUST be because they eat poorly and go to Starbucks and eat muffins all the time. There is more to it than that, and I want women to know that and not feel like they must be pigs if they train for an IM and gain weight. I also believe that there are things people can do while training for IM races that will help them control their weight, and it's not just watching calories.
Anyway, this has gotten too long. Just to make clear...I encourage anyone that loves triathlon to train for triathlons! I was only addressing the point that if you want to lose fat and that is your primary goal, there are better ways to do that.
In peace,

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Jessica

Jessica, thanks for your nice response but I don't feel picked on! I was just stating my take on the paleo thing. I'm glad it works for you though! I totally understand about being time limited and I'm glad you are happy with what you are doing. Cheers lady and keep kicking butt!

for clarity's sake, i wasn't suggesting that every woman who cannot improve their body composition through endurance training is gorging themselves. in fact, sometimes the problem is that they're not eating enough, and they are inducing metabolic issues. in most cases, though, i'd say that more education and awareness about their nutritional intake would lead to better results from ANY type of physical activity.

cheers!

-mistress k

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__________________________________________________________
ill advised racing inc.

Oh, I didn't realize the post was about you. It all makes sense now...coming from him I mean.

BTW, you look great in your picture on your blog :-) Congrats.

You CAN follow paleo and train for tris and do long workouts too...I have found after years at being stuck with lots of body fat despite all the long distance training I was doing, I was just EATING TOO MUCH and TOO MANY PROCESSED CARBS You dont 'need' bagels and pasta to train and do well! Now I get most of my fuel from fruits and veg (not too many fruits, one per day or more when heavy training, lots of bananas during rides) I train 10-17 hours a week without eating any rice, wheat, bread, pasta, potatoes and I am doing tons better as I lost lots of fat, I am faster and I dont feel I need X amount of carbs to do so....it was hard at first to break the mental habit, but you can train yourself if you try. I find I dont get bonky or crash. My ride mates look at me strange when we stop at a store and while they get bagels or power bars I get a v8 and some almonds. But then I keep going and have lots of energy til the end. And I lost ten pounds painlessly this way without counting calories. Pre long workout I have some Fage with honey, or a banana with PB on it. And that is enough and thats what I eat after too.
Though he is anti long 'cardio' there is lots of good info here www.marksdailyapple.com
sorry to go one but I am thrilled to find something that works for me after years of frustration of not looking like an 'athlete' despite all the training I did....really its 90% what you eat, and not all the training, that determines your BF, etc.

I follow that site, I agree with some but not all of it. And that forum can be a little ridiculous at times.

Would you care to share a day or two of typical intake for you? I'm always curious when people can train that much and not eat bread rice etc. I swam 3.3k today and ran 6 mi and my grains were a wrap, 2 cookies, and two-thirds of a clif bar. I try to lean on veggies and fruits and yogurt (plain, whole milk) as CHO sources but find I need some grains in there somewhere, mostly because otherwise I wouldn't get enough calories. (And I love cookies).

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

tigerchick-totally agree that forum can get ridiculous...all meat weeks? yikes!

this isnt a good week to give an example, ive been sick and did no long training this week but that is not typical....next week if I am better I hope! I will track a day when I do a long ride or run and exactly how far I go and what I eat....

On NO grains at all I feel I can keep up the energy and was totally surprised when I made the switch. I make muffins using almond flour and bananas, and eat pancakes made with almond flour only, with a little honey and fruit and Fage yogurt. During long training I eat lara bars mostly. No gatorade, water only. Sometimes some NUUN. Instead of potatoes or a 'starch' I have roasted cauliflower and broccoli....but to have something 'bready/carby' I like baking with almond flour or meal. Hard at first to get away from the thinking about all the fat in there, but its good fat and after one almond flour muffin I am full for ages. If I had a flour one Id crashing and wanting something else later.

One thing that has always turned me off to it as well is that very idea of making muffins, pancakes, etc out of something different - all of the "substitute food." Like becoming a vegetarian and eating a lot of highly processed soy "bacon" etc. To each their own; I don't have the motivation to cook with almond flour all the time. What I've taken from that site for the most part is affirmation that fats are really, really good for you.

I also find it quite cult-ish at times; or rather a bunch of lemmings. (Not aimed at you specifically - rather lurking on that forum a bit). I am curious how many people can stick with the "primal" diet for years on end... it seems a fat like anything else. But it certainly has some positives wrapped in some mis information.

If that came across as an attack on YOU, not meant to be - just trying to sort nutrition out :P

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

ha! oh no I did not take it at ALL to be an attack! notat all!
I also agree-there is a LOT of good info there, but the forums are a bit out there. Id just stick to the main site for info, and the recipe ideas are good.
I totally agree and have the same attitude about 'substitutions' but in the case with almond flour, its just ground up almonds! nothing weird artificial or super processed there, no fake soy crap, etc. So I feel good about using that. It makes the BEST pancakes! and its much easier I think to bake with than reg flour as its more 'forgiving'...the chemistry behind baking is different without gluten so you dont have to be quite as exact with measurements and can just experiment a lot.
But yeah the big take away I think from that site is-fat is not the enemy-its good for you! too many carbs-bad fake processed food-bad
At work I am offered treats etc and I turn them down and they insist---but its low fat!! as that is supposed to be the selling point as they think I am 'healthy'...they shudder at my full fat yogurt and cheese eating! but I listen to them complain about why they cant lise weight as they heat up another Lean Cuisine for lunch...so often I want to say something and dont.