I haven't read that book, or ever seen that reality TV show, so I can't comment on that, but I was in one. I lived with 58 other girls in 2 5-story conjoined houses with a house mom and a cook. I can't say I had a single negative experience. We had a library in our house where girls would make course "bibles" for their classes to help out the underclassmen taking the same classes. Doing well in school was highly admired, I was never hazed, and while there were a few girls with EDs or body image disorders, we held workshops and discussion groups to try to combat these. I never knew a girl in my sorority to be raped or hazed. Once a girl overdosed on painkillers. That was about the worst thing that ever happened while I was there. Our house was "dry"- meaning no alcohol permitted. While this wasn't strictly enforced- it was a "don't see it, don't worry about it" that meant the only drinking occurred in small groups in personal rooms, or out of the house. Some girls I liked, some I didn't. There were little cliques, arguments, and girls would gossip. That's life. Probably the worst "cat fights" I ever saw was when the sox played the yankees, or during the Bush v. Kerry election. We raised money for charities. About 1/2 the girls participated in sports, the other 1/2 did dance, choir or some other non-academic activity. It was really an incredible group, and I got involved in things I never would have. I even ended up vice president somehow. I even got three of my sisters into triathlon, and to this day they still do it.

Yes, we did stupid things. We went to the tanning salon during the winter (damn it, I'm seeing the wrinkles now!), we drank a little too much at times, and I should have been nicer to that one girl I didn't like too much.

I think the worst part about it was the fact that the majority of our socializing was restricted to fraternities. There was a big segregation between Greek life vs. dorm life. I never really liked most fraternities, because they were a little overwhelming and pretty dirty, and the guys packed it 4 to a room and all had lofted beds. Nasty now that I look back at it. But I'm pretty sure ALL college boys are gross! :)

I think my experience was rare. But I'll take it!

I pledged at fraternity as a little sister and went through hazing so anything they could throw at us that wasn't sexual. I never felt pressured for sex, only booze :-) Not much sleep, humiliation, studying their history, Greek history pop quizzes, etc. Not much philanthropic work there.

We split at the end of that year to start our own sorority which I was founding president of. I loved it. I learned a ton about myself and my leadership abilities. I won't go into the drama that we went through to be formally recognized by the university except to say I finally became the person I wish I'd been in high school.

We hazed to an extent. No booze involved, we had a dry pledge period, but lots of harassment and sleep deprivation. We never physically touched them, just head games and some public humiliation. Remember, this was the late 80s when hazing was still pretty much an accepted part of the process.

We never had a big house, house mother or cook. We were quite ragtag and not super popular with the other sororities. The fraternities loved us because we were the first at a party and the last to leave. We didn't have a reputation for sleeping around, just knowing how to party.

I had a fantastic time. I can't think of anything negative with my bunch other than being harassed by the other sororities because they were threatened. We did make a dent in their popularity. We had infighting but nothing that was so serious it ruined the experience for me. I probably shouldn't have drank as much as I did but I don't know too many people who wouldn't say the same thing from my generation.

The organization went national after I left and is still putting through pledge classes, 20 years later. I love knowing I created a family for 400 or so other women.

I moved to the opposite side of the country when I graduated and lost touch but have now reconnected with several sisters via Facebook. Best group of friend's and best non-related family I've ever had. Not sure I'll ever have something like that in my life again.

Phi Sigma Beta, Founding President, Keene State College, 1989.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

I also haven't read the book or seen the tv show but I was in a sorority - Alpha Gamma Delta. I went to a small baptist university (around 2000 students) in central GA and our greek system consisted on 6 sororities and 9 (I think it was 9) fraternities. The sororities had houses only 6-8 girls lived in them with the rest of us in dorms and on campus or off campus apartments. The fraternities had lodges and no men lived in the lodges as they were only used for meetings and parties. Being a baptist university, we were a dry campus. A large percentage of the campus was greek. The sororities averaged around 80-100 members a piece and the fraternities somewhere around there too. So if you do the math, it seemed like anyone who stayed on campus over the weekend was either a member of a greek organization or so closely affiliated with one that you thought they were a member. The sororities also didn't have huge rivalries with each other and we commonly had mixers/parties with each of the other sororities during the year. We also had mixers with almost all of the fraternities.

My experience was a good one. Like the poster above, we had our cliques, gossips and the usual bull that goes along with any organization of more than 1 member. But in general we had a great, well rounded group of women. By definition, I would have to admit I was hazed but it wasn't hazing like you see in the movies or hear about on the news. It was all in good fun and those who didn't want to participate didn't have to and it was never held against them. In fact, they did a great job of sorting out who would be interested in some harmless hazing and who wouldn't and just took the ones along who they knew would find humor in it. And by hazing I mean we were blind folded and driven around town and had our picture taken in front of various landmarks -- very scandalous I know. Oh and there may have been some shots in there someplace. The minor hazing was a welcome change from the normal pledge activities of receiving gifts from your big sister, eating baked goods and singing hideous songs.

I did learn a ton from the experience. In high school I never had many female friends as I was always going to shows and to the skate park with the boys so being in an all female organization taught me a ton about how to deal with other females. I also met some of my best friends who I still am close to these days. Without the sorority, I doubt I would have made friends with these amazing ladies. Overall, it was a great experience and if I somehow found myself back in college, it is one decision I wouldn't change.

If doing well in school was admired, how did you justify cheating?

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

What makes you think they were giving out any information that wasn't available to other students in those same classes? Do I detect a bit of prejudice?

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

Haven't read the book.

Alpha Sigma Tau. Loved it. I lived in the house one year before I transferred schools.

Pledging and hazing were made to sound really bad, but it wasn't. Can't tell details, but it ended up being a lot of fun.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

>>The fraternities loved us because we were the first at a party and the last to leave. We didn't have a reputation for sleeping around, just knowing how to party.<<

Ha ha. That was my house too. We had the frats and the football team since two sisters dated football players and a lot of people were "littles" for a number of frats.

And the best formal was the one I took Ed the rugby player and Messers. (Jack) Black and Blue.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Not prejudice, just anti cheating. I have nothing against Greek life; I do have something against not doing one's own intellectual work.

Files of old tests and papers from classes, passed down from upperclassmen to lowerclassmen, = cheating. Part of valuing high achievement is valuing intellectual rigor, so I don't understand how a sorority can justify some intellectual standard with "bibles" for classes. Discussion better suited to LR perhaps.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Did she say what was in the bibles?

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

Whoa there, relax, TC. The faculty were well aware of this practice, as most dorms, sororities and fraternities did this and it was well known. In fact, it was used as a major selling point to parents if they didn't want their kid to join a frat! The tests and problem sets were never the same, it was all just study material. We would take the old tests as practice. I went to mit; the faculty were creative enough not to give the same test year after year!

Nothing was in the bibles that the Professor him or herself didn't post online as extra study material (i.e. old problem sets and tests). Of course, the answers (sometimes right, sometimes wrong) to the old exams and old psets were in the bibles, so it was up to you if you wanted to look through them or not. But like I said, the faculty all knew about these "bibles" the students had access to. In fact, I remember inviting my classmates over (not in my sorority) to study the material in them. They definitely weren't super secret. Just helpful in learning the material.

I thought it was interesting how "bibles" was immediately assumed to mean cheating. I didn't even think about it sharing anything other than public data. I figured it was compiled notes which as far as I know, sharing notes isn't cheating, it is studying together.

We didn't put up with cheating my my sorority either. I never took part, never was asked and never knew of cheating. We made it clear that wasn't going to happen. My parents are/were university professors so I have a strong aversion to cheating after watching what they would deal with.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

I assumed because in the book, what are in filing cabinets/course 'bibles' are exact copies of prelims, finals, papers, and HW assignments and there are instances of girls blatantly cheating. I am sorry for assuming; it sounds like in some instances these 'bibles' are nothing more than homemade Clifs Notes, and thus not cheating.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Not to get too off topic, but where I went to school, 'bibles' are accepted and expected by students and faculty in both dorms and greek system. These bibles had class notes, homework assignments with solutions and exams with solutions. One of the best ways to learn material is through additional problems and self exam. To make things fair, most professors would hand out copies of previous years exams with their solutions for students that didn't have access to a course 'bible'. In fact, they even made a website which is essentially a big 'bible' of every course in the school (http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm). I still have all the 'bibles' from the classes I took and when I was in school I would let other students borrow them when they were needed. Bibles are often better resources then text books when I have to review something I learned in school.

What do professors expect happens when you pass back student exams? That no one will look at them again. Any course that I teach, I make new homework and exams each and every year. To do otherwise is lazy and asking for it.

As for your original question. I dated a sorority girl for 3+ years in college while I lived in a dorm and had no frat affiliation. I would say that each sorority and each sorority member is/are individual and caution against stereotyping them. They have their partiers, drunks, bookworms, goody girls, etc. The main difference I saw was a little less freedom traded for more organized and active social life.

Ah makes sense...I never read the book. So, is it worth a read? You just said that it was interesting...is it actually a well-written, thoughtfully narrated book?

Very much so. Alexandra Robbins is intelligent and articulate; both qualities are evident in her writing. She specifically follows four girls in a a couple different sororities and the book is part 'novel' as she related the girls' experiences and part relatively unbiased analysis of sorority life. (I say 'relatively' because while she does not pick a for/against side with sororities, no journalism is without bias and hers leans slightly toward the 'against' side because she relates more negatives - racism, the money issues at play, etc - than she does positives).

'The Secret Lives of Overachievers' was very good too. That one I felt like I was reading all about ME!

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

One of the things that seems a theme in the book and here is that sorority girls learn to deal with other women in the sorority and that skill is useful later in life. I find that very interesting. As is probably evident from my other threads, I can't deal with other women at all ...

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD