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Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones
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Remember my really long "roommate" thread from a couple years ago? Same person.

Because I live in a world that is far too small, she entered my graduate program this semester. I was not happy to (a) have to interact with her again or (b) have her in my intellectual space, but I had no choice. We have one class together; I am the head TA for the five sections of the class I'm in charge of (she teaches one section and thus I have had a slightly authoritative position over her); we are in the same large classroom-converted to office.

If you don't remember the story correctly, this is the roommate whose boyfriend spent too much time in our shared one-bedroom space and she yelled at me several times, once for something that I didn't do. She has a quick temper, is extroverted (I'm an introvert, and if you're an introvert too, you'll appreciate why that detail is important), and has some anger issues.

Because the yelling was very hurtful to me, when I knew we would be in a class together I went to the professor, informed her of the history, and told her that I was worried about the class being an emotionally safe place for me. She was receptive to my worries and agreed to not put us in any work or discussion groups together, etc. This class has gone OK, but I am facing another semester of having a class with her. This is a larger class and not a discussion one, but I have met with the professor and asked for the same arrangement - please don't put us in groups together, etc.

My current issue is that she is OBLIVIOUS to the boundaries I try to set for my office, and I don't know what to do. For example, one of the boundaries I have tried to set is "don't interrupt me when I am clearly doing work." [The office is an open space with desks - no cubicles though sometimes I REALLY want one]. She usually interrupts me when I am doing work and does not take the hint when I politely answer a question and then immediately look down/at my computer/get back to what I was trying to do. She is oblivious to this and usually keeps talking.

I am worried that in the class next semester she will ask me for help with homework (she asks me for help with her statistics homework now because I'm in a more advanced statistics class - and has not yet taken the hint of "I'm sorry, I'm busy doing _________ and can't help you").

My reasons for not wanting to interact with her: it is not so much fear of being yelled at again (I got over that in the beginning of this semester) but rather I don't enjoy interacting with her; furthermore, she was very hurtful toward me and with the way she treated me, I am not willing to spend time helping her. It's kind of like how you know there are "toxic" people in your life who just drain your energy, so you choose to set boundaries with them.

But what do you do when they are OBLIVIOUS to your boundaries? My latest tactic - she emailed me this morning and asked which of the two articles posted for class are optional. I wrote back "I don't remember [lie], check the assignment post." Current tactic: if I don't give helpful answers, she will eventually stop asking me questions.

Other ideas or thoughts? sorry for the long post.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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I'm an extrovert. (dunh ;-)) I had a tendency to talk a lot, ramble on etc., and can be annoying to introverted people. In a lot of cases it's not intentional, I'm just the kind of person that likes to interact with people.

I suggest you wear headphones when you are working at your desk. Just stop listening to her. Honestly it seems rude but you will not get her to stop nattering away in the background easily... if she's like me, she's wired that way and it's really tough to change that programming (you can, but that's called "maturity" which means you are not going to change it for her). Also: when she emails you something that seems kinda obvious/stupid, I suggest ignoring it. If it's important, she'll either figure it out on her own or ask again.

Be zen-like. Sometimes you have to be like the reed and let the wind blow around you, instead of trying to stand up against it.

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [AndyPants] [ In reply to ]
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Earplugs might be more effective than headphones ;-)

Thank you. I was kinda hoping you'd respond; you usually have good ideas. The email one is a great one... duh!

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Take a deep breath, be direct and tell her (something to the effect of) our past relationship and how you treated me was very hurtful and I prefer not to interact with you or help you with your studies. I'm sure this coldbe worded more eloquently, but I'm typing and stuffing my face with Thanksgiving leftovers at the same time. I made some kick ass Brussles sprouts yesterday.

I even think you could deliver this message via e-mail. If she brings it up in person, stay very calm and reiterate that you prefer not to have any sort of friendship with her.

Obviously the subtle hints aren't working, so let her know how you feel and hopefully you will nip it in the bud.

Good luck!
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [QRgirl] [ In reply to ]
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If she really is an extrovert as in personality type (with all the traits, not just the lack of shyness) and so oblivious, she likely does not even see what she did in the past as wrong, or even remember it.
It's taken me a while to get over this and easier said than done=try not to worry and get upset about what COULD or MIGHT happen...or even what PROBABLY will happen as it has not yet!
Ignore the emails, put on headphones, don't agonize over whether you are being rude or not...worry about yourself first.
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [triLA] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
she likely does not even see what she did in the past as wrong, or even remember it.

That is probably completely true. Thank you for the response.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Not too diminish YOUR feelings about it...its that I once lived with someone who sounds similar. People that self centered often are not aware how they affect other people and I doubt she dwells on it. But when you are the one that suffered, its not so easy to forget!
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [triLA] [ In reply to ]
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my feelings are not diminished at all and I value your wisdom from a similar experience.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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I'm an introvert and have trouble with direct confrontation. That being said, I think you have to be blunt. You don't have to be rude, but don't be subtle. When she comes to your work desk try saying, "I'm sorry, I can't help you now. I don't like being interrupted when I'm working." I agree with ignoring the emails. Make yourself unavailble to her. She'll eventually go away.
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Could you apply the mental fortitude that you have in your training toward dealing with this situation? Whatever stratgies that you had employed in your training which allow you to go longer/harder, employ the same successful problem-solving technqiue that you have, continously refined in your training.
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Be up front, it is the only way to get rid of her. Hinting and ignoring clearly is failing and she sounds like someone who needs a virtual slap upside the head [please don't actually do that ;-) ]

You don't owe her anything other than being civil. That doesn't mean putting up with something that makes you uncomfortable, it just means you shouldn't be mean and spiteful which I KNOW you aren't.

All of this is easier said than done, of course. Thinking of it as a character building exercise ;-)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [JenHS] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
You don't owe her anything other than being civil.

I am going to knock that one into my head. Nicely worded.

In Reply To:
it just means you shouldn't be mean and spiteful which I KNOW you aren't.
I am capable of being mean and spiteful ;-) but I don't have to be, nor is it called for [ever].

thanks for the reply.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Is there anything you can do to change office assignments? What a small, sucky world sometimes!

As a grad student myself, I totally hear you. My officemates like to start "chatting" whenever they want. And it's usually not a simple observation, but a long-winded story and I feel rude not putting down my work, and turning to them and listening.

I bought a set of big fat Sony noise canceling headphones ($50 well spent). I don't even listen to music on them, I just put them on, so people think I'm listening to music. If they start talking, I just ignore them, and it's usually not worth it to them to tap me on the shoulder to talk.

I've found that most of my fellow grad students, while smart, are actually not very productive on an hourly basis. However, as an athlete, you know how to be efficient, and since you are always cramming in workouts and other social things to do- every second at work, at your desk, needs to be well spent. Many non-athletes don't understand this frame of mind, and they spent a good deal of the day chatting and looking at youtube or whatever- which is fine by me, but I don't want to get sucked into that!

If this gets really bad, you might want to have a discussion with your whole office (so you don't single her out) about everyone's learning, living and working styles, and just state your needs simply and clearly.

I don't know what else to say, but I totally hear you- that sucks!
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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TC: the one thing I've learned in life to be true is that relationships are never simple or easy and the sooner you learn to not get wound up or take things personally then the sooner you will find peace with yourself and others. You are going to encounter people like this woman for the rest of your life but next time it will be your boss or your mother-in-law. You won't be able to ask someone else to intervene on your behalf, you will just have to live with it. I have wasted so much time and energy hemming and hawing about what so and so does or didn't do and what a waste!

Like the previous poster does, put on your headphones and ignore her. The sooner you get over it the better because expecting her to change is an exercise in futility. I learned this the hard way, I hope you don't have to like I did. Try to remember that you are equally quirky in your own way and that people may be just as exasperated with you at times. None of us are perfect!

Cheers to you and try not to let yourself get caught up in drama.
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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I'm an introvert so I get where you're coming from about hating confrontation but what you're doing is being passive-aggressive and somehow hoping that she'll read your mind and understand what you want. When she doesn't it's only going to aggrevate you further and escalate the situation. You need to politely tell her something along the lines of what QR girl stated and clearly outline - verbally or in email - what your boundaries are so that there can be no mistake in her mind. Then when she crosses those boundaries you need to remind her - again and again if need be - that she has crossed the boundaries.


http://smallfoodbiz.com
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [trailbait] [ In reply to ]
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What Erika said. Read it again. Then read it a third, fourth and fifth time.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [trackie clm] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you Cathy! I feel so wise all of the sudden. I only learned this lesson by having to walk away from a friend I had for over 20 years. It was painful and drama filled but needed. I have seen good people who throw themselves into their work go down in flames because someone didn't like them and it can really derail people. I think this is so hard for women because we are supposed to be "nice" and everyone is supposed to like us. This is such a silly and worthless notion.

There are people who HATE vanilla ice cream. Is there anything more benign that vanilla ice cream? Now that I'm older (yikes) I even take a little bit of pride in knowing that someone doesn't like me. I've got my flavor on. Finally!
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [trailbait] [ In reply to ]
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Headphones work great! Get the big padded ones. They block more sound and send a better message. Just put them on when you are ready to end the conversation. If she keeps talking, point to them, smile and go back to your work. I do not need them in my current job, but have used them before. Sometimes I didn't even have any tunes playing, but only I knew that!
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [trailbait] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
There are people who HATE vanilla ice cream. Is there anything more benign that vanilla ice cream? Now that I'm older (yikes) I even take a little bit of pride in knowing that someone doesn't like me. I've got my flavor on. Finally!

Whoa...don't pick on vanilla! Ever tried high quality vanilla bean ice cream...bursting with flavor. Those chocolate snobs can have it all... I'll take vanilla any day! :)

But I think that was your point anyway. Everyone comes in different flavors and likes different ones. It takes all kinds.

TC, I agree with you that it's important to steer clear of those toxic folks when possible, but like AP said, you won't always be able to.

I once read a great what-if story. You're in the grocery store, hurrying off to make dinner for a party, and your arms full of bags. Then some moron runs into you from behind, spilling your bags everywhere. You look up to make an angry, sarcastic comment and realize that the person who bumped into you is blind and his bags are strewn everywhere too. Your anger melts away.

The point is, if you can teach yourself to have a bit of compassion for this annoying girl (but having compassion does NOT mean answering her emails or catering toward her), your anger won't consume so much of your time. However you want to think about it: "It's sad that she doesn't understand the homework enough to do it herself," or "It's too bad for her that she has to be aggressive toward me to feel better about herself," or however you want to put it.
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [npda] [ In reply to ]
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Nicely said! I have used the technique that you brought up in your last paragraph and it really helps change the way that I emotionally respond to situations. The other day, I changed my facebook status to: it's not always personal if someone isn't being pleasant. I did it just to have a visual reminder of this idea after a bad interaction with someone I'm close to. :)
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [npda] [ In reply to ]
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progress today:

I spent this morning working on statistics and when the officemate I don’t like/doesn’t usually respect my boundaries asked “can I pick your brain about my project?” I told her “I’m actually really busy with data collecting and a stats project today and I don’t have time. I’m sorry.” It worked. AWESOME – you have no idea how awesome, actually.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [npda] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
The point is, if you can teach yourself to have a bit of compassion for this annoying girl (but having compassion does NOT mean answering her emails or catering toward her), your anger won't consume so much of your time. However you want to think about it: "It's sad that she doesn't understand the homework enough to do it herself," or "It's too bad for her that she has to be aggressive toward me to feel better about herself," or however you want to put it.

Sage advice. Thanks.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Hopefully it keeps working, but I doubt it will. Reading beyond your posts, you have merely told her 'I can't help you Now' If she's really been as abusive to you as you say shes been; I think you should heed QR's advice above. It directs said officemate to exactly where the buck is stopping, not where it temporarily is in the interim.

Well Wishes.
-PV



When someone pulls laws out of their @$$, all we end up with are laws that smell like sh!t. -Skippy
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Explain it as Jack did to Wendy in The Shining:

Jack: Wendy, let me explain something to you. Whenever you come in here and interrupt me, you're breaking my concentration. You're distracting me! [he hits his head with the palm of his hand, rips up his manuscript, and throws it onto the floor] And it will then take me time to get back to where I was! Understand?! Wendy: Yeah. Jack: Fine. I'm gonna make a new rule: whenever I'm in here, and you hear me typing,[presses down hard on random keys] whether you don't hear me typing, whatever the fuck you hear me doing in here, when I'm in here, that means that I am working. That means don't come in. Now, do you think you can handle that? Wendy: Yeah. Jack: Fine. Why don't you start right now and get the fuck outta here, hm?
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Re: Setting boundaries when the person is oblivious to your politely-set ones [hblake] [ In reply to ]
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awesome

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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