The first step is admitting that you suck...

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

I don't have a real power meter, but we have a new demo spin bike at the gym where I teach that has watts. I'm not sure how a spinning bike power output would compare to the real deal, however I had pretty much the same experience. I'm a weak cyclist anyways, but I was definitely working hard to do 2-3 minute intervals between 150-200 watts. Like you, my recovery was around 80 watts.

I really love the having the feedback though & think it really helps me dial in my training and get a much better workout. I'm going to be sad if we have to give the demo bike back....that or get my own power meter! :)

How sure are you that your Ergomo was installed correctly?

How many of the 6x:90 workouts have you done before? Typically ~1min power is something you have or you don't. You can certainly train it but I wouldn't expect the numbers to be good out of the box, esp for an endurance athlete.

And of course, how much you weigh? It's w/kg, not just straight watts.


As you point out, it could easily be the trainer. What kind to you have? How often do you ride one? What sort(s) of fan(s) are you using during these workouts?

(not a chick, but I coach a few)

Of course I suck ;-) You know that... AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

here's the skinny. The ergomo is on my bike I bought from my coach (Francois), so I'm pretty sure it's on right. Today was the first day doing that workout with power feedback. I have done similar workouts by HR and RPE only, in fact I vary the interval and recovery times so Tuesday might be 4' hard with 2' easy, and Thurs may be a pyramid of 5x2' intervals of increasing resistance, with 2' easy before starting again.

I'm not going to tell you how much I weigh, nice try... I am still a chick after all... ;-) But that's a fair comment. I guess 200W for someone who is 200lb is different than someone who is say 130lbs.

The trainer is an older mag trainer, but it does the job, and I ride it 2 or 3 times a week for 1 hr eash session. Fans? NONE. I want to sweat. ;-)

My real hope is to play with the power data a bit to get a feel for what I should be able to manage to hold for the 4' interval, the 10' interval, etc. trying to get a feel for the baseline as it were. And occasionally do a gut-buster with shorter intervals.

Your thoughts?

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

Fair enough on the calibration. While I don't buy it, I'll let you :) They're sensitive to installation, unlike SRMs and PTs.

I have no interest in knowing what you weigh. I always feel a tad odd asking clients but then I need it for this chart:
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...power-profiling.aspx

I think you should use a fan. Fans. For every one watt of heat of power you register on your powermeter you're dumping three as heat. So even for an easy 100w workout you're generating 300 as heat. That's a lot of heat. Your body then gets involved in shunting blood to the surface to dissipate that heat instead of sending it to working muscles. RPE goes up while actual work performed drops off. So it feels harder but gets easier.

So really, I think that's your big problem. Your numbers strike me as low (unless you weigh less than ~63kg) so the question is my mind is why. Calibration is one, but the easy answer is to get a fan, lower the room temperature a bit and see what happens.

OK I am right at 63kg. Dammit. You got it out of me. I will d/check the installation, it's been there for some years now with no changes to the crankset/BB, so I can't imagine it's gone wonky.

The table helps, thanks, I will actually try to capture some of these numbers and see where I am. I know I could sustain that 200W for a few minutes, maybe even 5min ONCE, but I have no idea what I could do in one 10s shot, nor at FT.

I'll grudgingly try a fan. Guess I was hopping to lose some more weight by sweating it off LOL.

Thx, your posts help.

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

No sweat at all. While I'm happy to contribute to this thread feel free to PM me if you have other questions (now or later).

I would think that it's been installed correctly (the wrenches at Crazy Cat, where Francois has his work done are very good) - but it might need to be recalibrated or zeroed. I'm not certain about the Ergomo specifically, but most power meters need to be recalibrated from time to time, and zeroed at the start of every ride.

As a test, have P hop on and see what kind of numbers he can generate. If they're really low too, you've got some calibratin' to do. If they look ok, you just suck. :p

But I'd learn how to calibrate and zero that unit anyway...

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

Ooh, what kind of spin bike is it that measures power?

You are gonna love using your PM on the trainer. It is such an awesome "electronic whip". Much much easier to target a power number than a hr number on the trainer.
I wouldn't worry so much about the numbers you start with. I don't think that anyone ever got a PM and thought "Hey ... look what a stud I am!" ;) The great thing is that you will get to watch the numbers go up every week! and as many people point out, power/weight and power/CdA is what matters, not the absolute number. I've riden with a lot of dudes side by side sitting 70-80 watts lower than them.
For perspective, though, down in my bars with a fitted jersey but no aero toys, 200Watts is probably about 36-37kph for me on a flat road with no wind.

Yeah, make sure that you know how to calibrate your Ergomo. Once you figure that out, I'd suggest that you recruit someone to chase (I could be tricked!) or enter a TT and go out and ride 30 minutes as hard as you can. Subtract 5% from your NP and you should get a reasonable estimate for FTP so you have an idea of what to target in your other workouts.

The thing with short intervals is that you've got to be pretty well rested and also very well motivated to really nail them ... especially inside. And especially without any set idea of what you should be aiming at. The fan thing can be huge too. 20Watts or so for a hard workout, I think.

Have fun!

I read somewhere that indoor power is usually about 10% less than what you would do outside....for most people. For me it's about the same. If I'm doing a solo trainer workout or a solo road workout I'm usually about 10% less than I am if I am doing a group trainer workout or a group road workout.

Once you figure out how to use it and use it you'll see the gains. I got a powermeter last year and played with it a bit, but mostly just let it collect data. This year I am pretty focused on it during workouts and have seen a big improvement in the #s.

I think the best pay off for me is having it in a race. I tend to slack off a lot on the bike, but the past three races where I've raced with power I've focused on the power and had a lot better times than I expected. Now if I could just remember to drink fluids while I'm focusing on the power #s.

Bear in mind what Miranda's bike position looks like - she's pretty clean...

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<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

I have never seen a chick on a bike-their wings don't reach the handlebars and their feathers get all rumpled... :-)

Out of curiosity, have you done a VO2 max or similar to find out your power numbers? Also, have you ridden the PM on the road, so you have some kind of idea about what 200w equates to in terms of RPE or speed?

I would second the reccomendation for a fan though, as cooking on a trainer is not much fun. My HR when on the trainer is higher than it should be compared to similar exertion on the road.

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"Here's how you run a marathon. Step 1: You start running. Step 2: There is no step 2." - Barney (How I Met Your Mother)

Out of curiosity, have you done a VO2 max or similar to find out your power numbers? Also, have you ridden the PM on the road, so you have some kind of idea about what 200w equates to in terms of RPE or speed?

I would second the reccomendation for a fan though, as cooking on a trainer is not much fun. My HR when on the trainer is higher than it should be compared to similar exertion on the road.

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"Here's how you run a marathon. Step 1: You start running. Step 2: There is no step 2." - Barney (How I Met Your Mother)

I've trained with power for 5 years now. You want to establish your FTP (Functional Threshold Power), and you can scan the main forum for all the ways to do that. The name of the game is power to weight ratio (weight measured in kg).

I weigh 110, and my FTP is 205, so my power to weight is 4.1, which you might think makes me lightning fast, but it doesn't. However, I can tell you that in aero position, I can be kicking out pretty low watts and be going fairly fast. My CdA is low ;)

How FTP translates into speed under any given situation is available on a website, also referenced in main forum.

To increase your FTP, you do hard intervals. If you are truly focused indoors, you can hit the same numbers as outdoors, but generally speaking, it just feels easier to do the work outside because you have things like wind, hills, etc.

Buy Coggan's book on training with power, check out endurancenation.us power kit and you are good to go.

Feel free to PM me with any questions, too.

Getting the hang of things takes awhile, and you DO need to get geeked out as far as downloading and analyzing to a certain extent, but there is a spectrum of geekiness. I don't use the whole CTL thing in WKO+--I just look at the TSS I am able to generate for a given workout (knowing about how much I SHOULD generate) and how I did compared to the last week doing the same or a similar workout.

As far as designing a training program with power, again I defer to endurancenation.us as a great source (since I used to be coached by Rich Strauss, I learned much myself) and also for racing with power protocols.

63 kg = 140 LBS.

Yeah I have VO2 max #s from not too too long ago, and they are OK. Around the 45-50 range (depending on what I weigh lol). I have only ridden the PM on the road a few times, at Monty's mostly, so once I get off the trainer (next month) with the PM it should be an interesting comparison.

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

yeah thanks for the reminder :-(

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

Thanks I am looking forward to using it more and learning what I can achieve... I can chase P and that would be pretty hard work, that should give me some #s.

Off to calibrate!

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

Took the ergomo for a spin on the trainer a few days ago, and again today up Burnaby Mountain at lunch (30min climb at 6-8% grade) - seems my FTP is around 180W, which is OK - it puts me at the moderate category (2.86W/kg)... now I have some ideas of how to track my training. I'm also lucky that I can do this hill climb weekly as a test if I wish.

Thanks again all for your advice.

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS

You want to improve that power? Ride that hill as an interval once a week, sister! I can guarantee you will be up 20 watts in 2 months or so if you do it weekly. Do 3-5 minute intervals with SHORT rest 1-2 minutes every week. Works like a charm.

After 2 years, my Ergomo is seemingly dying on me. I am getting all sorts of erratic power data, less than 100 watts to spikes over 2000 watts (oh how i wish:). I'm highly bummed.

Yeah, that's the plan, to try and ride that bad boy once a week. ;-)

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS