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Is pacing during a race cheating
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I have a question. Is pacing someone or running next to someone during Ironman considered cheating? If someone is not in the race and they join their friend for more than half the race distance is it cheating? If they say I will not be talking to her and saying anything but will just run next to her is it cheating? What if this person puts on a racing tri kit to blend in and not draw attention to her is it still cheating? Would you report them or say something to the race director?
Last edited by: spintela: Mar 22, 13 19:12
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [spintela] [ In reply to ]
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Yes. If one of them isn't a registered racer it is both against the rules and cheating to help a competitor by bringing in someone with fresh legs.

I'd totally bust them. Clearly they have a very specific goal, either to win or at least KQ which has a big impact on the other competitors.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [JenSw] [ In reply to ]
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JenSw wrote:
Yes.


X2.

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [JenSw] [ In reply to ]
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Intent was to help her make her time and beat another competitor in the same age group
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [spintela] [ In reply to ]
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Yup. Cheating. Bust her.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [spintela] [ In reply to ]
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JenSW said it very elegantly and succinctly: If one of them isn't a registered racer it is both against the rules and cheating to help a competitor by bringing in someone with fresh legs.

I'd totally bust them.




The intent is irrelevant. The person in question should read the rules and abide by them or pay the consequences, including disqualification.

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [spintela] [ In reply to ]
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Yes it's cheating.
Don't do it.
Not cool.
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [QRgirl] [ In reply to ]
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And yes, I would rat them out. I'm a total tattle tail and can not keep a secret. So don't do anything bad in front of me and if I don't see you do it, don't tell me about it :-)
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [spintela] [ In reply to ]
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Like everyone above said so well, plus --

it's cheating even worse if the pacer disguises herself as a competitor, that makes it fraud





http://www.yearoftrainingdangerously.blogspot.com
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [spintela] [ In reply to ]
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It is always cheating, even when the pacer is registered, unless the rules specifically allow it. So some ultras (eg, Graveyard 100) allow pacers for the last 50 miles of the run, but only to the extent that the pacers do not physically assist the racer to propel forward.

No coasting in running and no crying in baseball
Last edited by: Tri3: Mar 23, 13 7:10
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [spintela] [ In reply to ]
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spintela wrote:
I have a question. Is pacing someone or running next to someone during Ironman considered cheating? If someone is not in the race and they join their friend for more than half the race distance is it cheating? If they say I will not be talking to her and saying anything but will just run next to her is it cheating? What if this person puts on a racing tri kit to blend in and not draw attention to her is it still cheating? Would you report them or say something to the race director?

yes
yes
yes
yes

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [QRgirl] [ In reply to ]
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QRgirl wrote:
And yes, I would rat them out. I'm a total tattle tail and can not keep a secret. So don't do anything bad in front of me and if I don't see you do it, don't tell me about it :-)
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [spintela] [ In reply to ]
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In IMLP in 2007 a woman who was spectating started running with someone, just to talk and there was a referee who kept telling her to get off the course.
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [spintela] [ In reply to ]
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yup it's cheating.
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
[reply] JenSW said it very elegantly and succinctly: If one of them isn't a registered racer it is both against the rules and cheating to help a competitor by bringing in someone with fresh leg[/reply]


While I understand this in the context of AG'ers, rabbits are definitely hired in some elite running races, aren't they?

And what about having pace groups at various marathons?


maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Last edited by: tigerchik: Mar 24, 13 3:58
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Not the same set of rules as in an IM. If it is allowable via the rules, not cheating. Against the rules, cheating.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Agree - and I see the difference between a pace group in a marathon and a pacer in an IM.

I know rabbits are used in running races - I'm drawing a blank on specific examples. I remember watching some marathons on TV that would have pacers for the first half, then a different group for the second half.


maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Last edited by: tigerchik: Mar 24, 13 4:00
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Roger Bannister broke the 4 minute mile with pacers.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [JenSw] [ In reply to ]
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Ja, there we go. And it's pretty common in ultras, no?

If a marathon allows pace groups, is it cheating to have someone jump in and pace you from, say, mile 20 onward? Or cheating because that person has fresh legs?

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Ultra "pacers" aren't pacing as much as keeping their runners from running off the trail :-)

Most ultras have very specific rules on pacing such as the pacer can't run in front if the runner or "mule". Also they aren't keeping the runner company the whole race. In a 100, they typically can't start pacing until at least 50 mikes, some 100s they can't jump in until mile 75. In a 50 mile it is usually mile 35 that someone can join their runner.

Ultras can have different rules because USATF doesn't certify them unless they are on road (I think...not 100% sure) It is hard to certify trails.

Confused yet?

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Good q. In most marathons I've seen the pacers start the race, often with bibs identifying them as pacers too, and they fall away as they tire. I do not recall seeing any pacers join late. This is for IAAF/AIMS/world record type marathons (London, Berlin, Tokyo, etc.). Now I wanna know, let me check IAAF's site. Bannister did the same thing with his rabbits - essentially dropping one per lap until his last solo lap.

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS
Last edited by: AndyPants: Mar 24, 13 10:38
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [AndyPants] [ In reply to ]
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IAAF Rule 144: Assistance

"For the purpose of this Rule, the following shall be considered
assistance, and are therefore not allowed:
(a) pacing in races by persons not participating in the same race,
by athletes lapped or about to be lapped or by any kind of
technical device..."

So as long as they are registered runners, they can pace. But this would definitely not permit late pacers (i.e.: those that start the race half-way along, for example). So you can see that the WTC rule re: pacing does meet with the IAAF rules as well.

Phew, now I know. Time for a coffee. :-)

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [AndyPants] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In most marathons I've seen the pacers start the race, often with bibs identifying them as pacers too, and they fall away as they tire. I do not recall seeing any pacers join late. This is for IAAF/AIMS/world record type marathons (London, Berlin, Tokyo, etc.). Now I wanna know, let me check IAAF's site. .

I thought for sure they'd have pacers for the first half, and different pacers for the second. I could be wrong.


maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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If you are good enough to pace the 2nd half of a world class marathon... then you are likely good enough to be paced... ;-)

AP

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"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS
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Re: Is pacing during a race cheating [spintela] [ In reply to ]
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Very interesting question actually. while I do agree intentionally entering a non-draft legal race to keep someone paced is cheating, I do think there are legal ways to do this.

In triathlon there are very often 'teams' working together with domestiques and 'GC' athletes.

Also in the AG scene, on the swim and run I will often find an informal 'rabbit' and stick with them as long as I can, or until they tire and I move on. For the run this has really helped me in the past. I am also short, so on a windy course, I will tuck in behind someone while running for a short break. These are other competitors and we have no agreement. Many even legally 'draft' on the bike by staying just out of the draft zone in most races this is still close enough to get some benefit.

The other question is: if I enter a race to just complete it with another race, but I am a stronger athlete and verbally keep them going and running at a certain pace - is that cheating? Does it matter what place? I will admit to running a 1/2 marathon with a friend who just wanted to complete the distance. I stayed with this person the whole way offering encouragement. By no means were we fast, but I am sure that in some way keeping myself running was keeping this other person running. We weren't aiming to achieve a pace, just finish. I wonder now if that makes a difference.

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