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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
[When my son was born last year the best advice I got was this:

Everybody thinks that they are an expert and everyone will give you advice. Just smile and nod and keep doing what you are doing.


I think the Flo guys are doing pretty darn well. And one thing they are doing really differently than the other big wheel companies, they are themselves selling their wheels. This may be the model for the internet-enabled future: manufacturer/designer direct to consumer.

About the advice you got above, in my experience I would edit that some:

Everybody thinks that they are an expert and everyone will give you advice. Just smile and nod and listen; because some of the best advice comes from the unlikeliest sources.



Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Apr 26, 13 11:44
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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>This may be the model for the internet-enabled future: manufacturer/designer direct to consumer.

I don't know how well it's going to scale for Flo, though. If they want to get bigger (e.g. continuous inventory), they'll have to hire people smart in IT, marketing, operations, warranty repair, etc. At which point the cost-benefit vs. the retail model may start to converge.

I'm all for them, though, if just for their general openness.
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. They offer a competitive product at a steal of a price, and have great customer service to boot. They're filling a gap in the market and we should all be happy about that. If the only complaint is that you have to wait a few months to get the wheels, well then go pay big bucks elsewhere.

My only question is once I get the FLO 60s on my Argon18, will I be an honorary Canadian citizen?
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [lamby] [ In reply to ]
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lamby wrote:
Not to mention the kind of deals you get on those shows are laughably bad for anyone who has spent 5 minutes in the industry.

So you do $1.5 million in sales and have huge market potential?

Best I can do is tree-fiddy for a 95% stake in your company.

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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
>This may be the model for the internet-enabled future: manufacturer/designer direct to consumer.

I don't know how well it's going to scale for Flo, though. If they want to get bigger (e.g. continuous inventory), they'll have to hire people smart in IT, marketing, operations, warranty repair, etc. At which point the cost-benefit vs. the retail model may start to converge.

I'm all for them, though, if just for their general openness.

I appreciate all of the support on here. Thank you. To answer your question above, there's a long plan here at FLO. We've definitely thought all of your concerns above through and are confident we can keep FLO running successfully as is.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [ In reply to ]
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If you've ever actually seen Shark Tank you'll know that a lot of the investors on that show agree its a lot smarter to grow slowly with 100% ownership than take on funding and have a "boss."

I have been waiting for Flo to open up inventory since day one and agree this whole pre order thing is killing me. But it is their business, their the ones that put out their necks for it, let them do it how they want.

Also, VC stands for venture capital so by saying VC capital you're showing a lot of ignorance to the topic, why should they listen to you if you're making such silly statements?
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [hedgefund] [ In reply to ]
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If you have a better business strategy, why don't you open up your own wheel business and show us how its done?
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [hedgefund] [ In reply to ]
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hedgefund wrote:
So...675k net...if you hit 4500 units this year...more or less. Does anyone know how many wheels are sold in the US or world? These guys have a great product...they only need more exposure.

Uhm...how are you basing the breakdown of those 4500 units? How many flo 30, 90, disc, etc? How are you getting their production/shipping/marketing/warehouse/payroll/other costs?

And, for a pair of brothers, if the company is making "675k net", that's a pretty damn good return. Why would you give up anything as far as control for an unknown return?

And you also need to read up on what VC funding actually is, it's not a loan. They generally expect a company to go public or get sold in the next 5ish years, which is where they make their money (Stock sales). And, in return for this cash infusion, they also want a lot of control over how the company is run.

They are producing a good product, they are (generally) keeping up with demand, they have damned few unhappy customers from what I've seen on the boards, and they are very open with responses to any troubles/questions that arise.

I'd say they have an excellent business model/plan, and are executing it brilliantly.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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I was pretty turned off by the whole preorder process. Signed up early. Got an email a few days ago awarding me an open invitation to a free for all limited window mosh pit purchase. I have 12 minutes to complete my order. Nice window! I'm traveling all day today. Not sure why I even signed up for the preorder.

The sad thing from a business perspective is I would have prepaid for the wheels many weeks ago before the wheels showed up. Like, when I signed up for the preorder. Not even an option. Interesting way to do business. Bought something else today.
Last edited by: 3Aims: Apr 25, 13 9:07
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [hedgefund] [ In reply to ]
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hedgefund wrote:
With your price point and tunnel data...you should be easily be able to get VC capital to mass produce wheels and get yourself on the map.
You are significantly curtailing your progress by doing it this way.

Why on earth would someone with a strong demand for their product who wanted to be their own boss take VC money. Sell your soul, half your business, and find out your supply chain can't ramp up to meet the needs of your investors ROI expectations, leave your customers wanting with an inferior product because you had to source from a second know nothing supplier, and find yourself in between a rock and a hard place, where your only choice is to screw over every party involved, including your customers?
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [3Aims] [ In reply to ]
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3Aims wrote:
I was pretty turned off by the whole preorder process. Signed up early. Got an email a few days ago awarding me an open invitation to a free for all limited window mosh pit purchase. I'm traveling all day today. Not sure why I even signed up for the preorder.

The sad thing from a business perspective is I would have prepaid for the wheels many weeks ago before the wheels showed up. Like, when I signed up for the preorder. Not even an option. Interesting way to do business. Bought something else today.

I respect your opinion but "taking people's money early" is what we did in the beginning. We did this and then our boat crashed, or there was a port strike, a Tsunami etc and there were delays. Then people complained that there were delays. I often hear your suggestion from many people but the fact is, we had far more complaints/cancellations when we did things that way. We literally get hundreds of emails a day ranging from questions, advice on how we "should" be running our business, compliments etc. We'll never please everybody, and we are fully aware that not everyone can wait for the next batch of FLO wheels. That said, we are honestly doing our best to keep the largest number of people happy based on all of the comments/questions/suggestions we hear.

Additionally, taking everyone's money at this point means you'd likely get wheels months and months later due to demand. That also places a huge amount of stress on our factories which makes things worse for everyone. When people find out they aren't getting wheels for months they often decide to cancel their orders 2 months into the process (because "something came up) and we are out the money. There is a lot of orchestration that goes on behind the scenes that most people don't understand. It's not as simple as "place an order for 2000 wheels and get them next month". With our current demand there would be no good way to give customers accurate shipping dates and we are not willing to do that as a company.

I hope that makes sense,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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I 'm not knocking your business model, we bought our last new car via a pre-order and had to wait more than a year for delivery. The one thing I would ask for though is a decent shop feature on your website; when I click on "shop" all I get is a countdown to pre-order 5. I'm not in the market for buy wheels right now, but I am looking to buy in about a year or so and I am still doing my market research.
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [vecchia capra] [ In reply to ]
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vecchia capra wrote:
I 'm not knocking your business model, we bought our last new car via a pre-order and had to wait more than a year for delivery. The one thing I would ask for though is a decent shop feature on your website; when I click on "shop" all I get is a countdown to pre-order 5. I'm not in the market for buy wheels right now, but I am looking to buy in about a year or so and I am still doing my market research.

The "shop" feature only has a countdown timer linked to it a few hours before the pre-order. The rest of the time (ie, the last 8 weeks) you've had full access to all of our product pics, specs etc. Sorry for the inconvenience today.

Take care,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [vecchia capra] [ In reply to ]
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vecchia capra wrote:
I 'm not knocking your business model, we bought our last new car via a pre-order and had to wait more than a year for delivery.

You got a Tesla ? Lucky dog.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [3Aims] [ In reply to ]
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3Aims wrote:
I was pretty turned off by the whole preorder process. Signed up early. Got an email a few days ago awarding me an open invitation to a free for all limited window mosh pit purchase. I have 12 minutes to complete my order. Nice window! I'm traveling all day today. Not sure why I even signed up for the preorder.

The sad thing from a business perspective is I would have prepaid for the wheels many weeks ago before the wheels showed up. Like, when I signed up for the preorder. Not even an option. Interesting way to do business. Bought something else today.


Same boat. Would definitely have some Flos o
In the stable but don't want to wait....it's not my business or $ at stake but there is no doubt they are losing business because of this. Why not raise the price to match production??

______________________________________________

I *heart* weak, dumb ass people...
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [Pooks] [ In reply to ]
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Every time these pre orders come around and the inevitable thread starts, "I got in and got my disc!" or, "bummer, missed out, maybe next one."

Reminds me of another popular business model around here, can't think of which one....... :)
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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The intensity of hedgefund's conviction had me curious, so I looked at the profile. I thought it was worth pointing out that this username was created yesterday and has 9 posts, half of which are in this thread. Take that for what you will.


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The plural of anecdote is not data. :-)
- Andrew Coggan
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [coopdog] [ In reply to ]
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coopdog wrote:
3Aims wrote:
I was pretty turned off by the whole preorder process. Signed up early. Got an email a few days ago awarding me an open invitation to a free for all limited window mosh pit purchase. I have 12 minutes to complete my order. Nice window! I'm traveling all day today. Not sure why I even signed up for the preorder.

The sad thing from a business perspective is I would have prepaid for the wheels many weeks ago before the wheels showed up. Like, when I signed up for the preorder. Not even an option. Interesting way to do business. Bought something else today.



Same boat. Would definitely have some Flos o
In the stable but don't want to wait....it's not my business or $ at stake but there is no doubt they are losing business because of this. Why not raise the price to match production??

Because we started the company with a belief that we could produce high quality affordable products and we are sticking with that vision. There's a bigger plan in the working.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Canadian wrote:
There's a bigger plan in the working.

I like the sound of this...care to elaborate?
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
vecchia capra wrote:
I 'm not knocking your business model, we bought our last new car via a pre-order and had to wait more than a year for delivery.


You got a Tesla ? Lucky dog.

Nope, we became Smart fans before they were ever imported so we pre-ordered a Smart FourTwo before they went on sale in the US. It's a great car, lots of fun to drive and its great entertainment when we pull into a gas station and pay less than $30 to fill up while others are well over $100.
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [ether] [ In reply to ]
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ether wrote:
Canadian wrote:
There's a bigger plan in the working.


I like the sound of this...care to elaborate?

Haha... not yet ;)


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Canadian wrote:
ether wrote:
Canadian wrote:
There's a bigger plan in the working.


I like the sound of this...care to elaborate?


Haha... not yet ;)

Just PM me...promise I won't tell... = )
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Personally this sales method has been really frustrating.
I leave a meeting and try to buy a disk.
They are in my shopping basket and and when i try to buy it is sold out?

My ability to buy was based on my internet speed and how fast i can type. Perhaps a lottery would be better? (that might help you get an idea of true demand also)
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [triracerboy] [ In reply to ]
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triracerboy wrote:
Personally this sales method has been really frustrating.
I leave a meeting and try to buy a disk.
They are in my shopping basket and and when i try to buy it is sold out?

My ability to buy was based on my internet speed and how fast i can type. Perhaps a lottery would be better? (that might help you get an idea of true demand also)

I'm really sorry about the frustration today. The DISCs were very popular today and were gone in about 4 minutes. There are many ways we could do things but it's impossible to please everyone. If we chose to use a lottery then people would be upset when they weren't selected but they were "first" to enter. Also, we get a very good idea of demand during these sales.

Again, I'm sorry for the frustration today.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: At what point does a "pre-order" become just an order? [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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The discs that were sold today, were they they ones with the foam in it to dampen the vibration noise?
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