Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys
Quote | Reply
I'm just curious. I was wondering if anyone has heard of any agencies studying the use of drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys where there are mass casualties. I could see several benefits to using them; they are stealthy, the operator is not risking their life, it can provide video that can prove useful for tactical and first aid response. The drone could probably be armed with lethal or non-lethal weapons.

I would think there would be a good market for a drone that could be used in situations like these.

When you look at the issue with the Broward SRO not responding - for whatever reason - having a drone could have made a difference.

Thoughts?
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My understanding is that what ends these things typically is the cops showing up, not necessarily even taking the shooter out but just being on the scene.

So, a stealthy drone wouldn't do much good there.

And if they are inside, would a drone do any good at all?
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
Quote:
When you look at the issue with the Broward SRO not responding - for whatever reason - having a drone could have made a difference.

It could have provided the deputy with another excuse not to enter the building, "I was performing recon with the drone!"
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ThisIsIt wrote:
My understanding is that what ends these things typically is the cops showing up, not necessarily even taking the shooter out but just being on the scene.

So, a stealthy drone wouldn't do much good there.

And if they are inside, would a drone do any good at all?

You can fly a drone indoors. I think he is envisioning hovering drones, not fixed wing drones. That said, drones capable of carrying weapon systems are very large and very loud.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JSA wrote:

You can fly a drone indoors. I think he is envisioning hovering drones, not fixed wing drones. That said, drones capable of carrying weapon systems are very large and very loud.

Even that might not be a bad thing if it draws the shooters attention away from other students. The weapon wouldn't need to be too large, even a .22 with a few rounds could be useful if it was accurate.
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JSA wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
My understanding is that what ends these things typically is the cops showing up, not necessarily even taking the shooter out but just being on the scene.

So, a stealthy drone wouldn't do much good there.

And if they are inside, would a drone do any good at all?


You can fly a drone indoors. I think he is envisioning hovering drones, not fixed wing drones. That said, drones capable of carrying weapon systems are very large and very loud.

Yeah, I'm not sure we want quad copters with weapons on them just yet. I imagine there would need to be some work done on what the liability and use policies would be. Just imagine a quad with a firearm or taser attached that either accidentally shoots someone it's not supposed to, or is taken down by a perp (in the fairly limited maneuvering space inside a school building this might not be too difficult), giving him access to an additional weapon.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JSA wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
My understanding is that what ends these things typically is the cops showing up, not necessarily even taking the shooter out but just being on the scene.

So, a stealthy drone wouldn't do much good there.

And if they are inside, would a drone do any good at all?


You can fly a drone indoors. I think he is envisioning hovering drones, not fixed wing drones. That said, drones capable of carrying weapon systems are very large and very loud.

And VERY VERY expensive.

https://www.miles4matt.run/
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rick_pcfl wrote:
JSA wrote:


You can fly a drone indoors. I think he is envisioning hovering drones, not fixed wing drones. That said, drones capable of carrying weapon systems are very large and very loud.


Even that might not be a bad thing if it draws the shooters attention away from other students. The weapon wouldn't need to be too large, even a .22 with a few rounds could be useful if it was accurate.

IF we are going to consider something like this (and I am not saying we should), then it should be a wheeled robot. It would be easier to control, more stable, and more accurate. It would be like a bomb-handling remote vehicle. It could be big enough that the weapon system could be encased in armor so if the robot was "captured" by the shooter, the on-board weapon system could not be used.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [M~] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
M~ wrote:
JSA wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
My understanding is that what ends these things typically is the cops showing up, not necessarily even taking the shooter out but just being on the scene.

So, a stealthy drone wouldn't do much good there.

And if they are inside, would a drone do any good at all?


You can fly a drone indoors. I think he is envisioning hovering drones, not fixed wing drones. That said, drones capable of carrying weapon systems are very large and very loud.


And VERY VERY expensive.

Exactly. I'm not sure how many of these would be in operation around the country. These school shootings rarely happen in major metropolitan areas that would be more likely to have the means to have this system.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JSA wrote:
M~ wrote:
JSA wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
My understanding is that what ends these things typically is the cops showing up, not necessarily even taking the shooter out but just being on the scene.

So, a stealthy drone wouldn't do much good there.

And if they are inside, would a drone do any good at all?


You can fly a drone indoors. I think he is envisioning hovering drones, not fixed wing drones. That said, drones capable of carrying weapon systems are very large and very loud.


And VERY VERY expensive.


Exactly. I'm not sure how many of these would be in operation around the country. These school shootings rarely happen in major metropolitan areas that would be more likely to have the means to have this system.

Robots are used frequently for EOD related events, but that's possible because you generally want to take your time with those. In a shooting situation where you want rapid resolution, you don't want to wait for the one specialized unit to respond, get the robot set up, get the command post set up, wheel the robot in, slowly wheel it around the school looking for the bad guy, etc. You're probably better off with typical responders clearing room by room, or responding directly to a known location of a shooter.

Maybe if you had a protracted hostage scenario with lots of time to set up and a known location of the hostages and hostage taker,...

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's the next arms race, Rick -- AI armed drones.

When you have Musk's AI able to crush all human competitors in the recent DOTA 2 (multi-player battle arena game) competition, and the ease of mounting small arms (or explosives) on drones, the next era of warfare is imminent.

Smaller states and rogue actors may not be able to easily develop nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons, but soon anybody who wants to will be able to make smart killer drones. The race is on. And, it's going to make our current gun control debates seem quaint and antiquated.




"...Sometimes it's about getting the most speed out of the motor you have." -- Tom A.
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JSA wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
My understanding is that what ends these things typically is the cops showing up, not necessarily even taking the shooter out but just being on the scene.


So, a stealthy drone wouldn't do much good there.

And if they are inside, would a drone do any good at all?


You can fly a drone indoors. I think he is envisioning hovering drones, not fixed wing drones. That said, drones capable of carrying weapon systems are very large and very loud.


Could be small, ala Slaughterbots

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [torrey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
torrey wrote:
Could be small, ala Slaughterbots


Prescient video. Thanks.


"...Sometimes it's about getting the most speed out of the motor you have." -- Tom A.
Last edited by: MOP_Mike: Mar 12, 18 10:17
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
We shoot missiles and things like that with drones but I don't think the technology is close to have a drone rip though the inside of a school and execute a perfect head shot on a bad guy.

----
Don't hold back
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thoughts? Different than many - I think school shootings resulting in multiple deaths are rare and that we are making more of them than they deserve. Dating back to 1980 there have been 8 shootings at elementary, middle, and high schools involving 4 or more deaths, including the shooter. Another one involved 4 deaths, Kip Kinkel, but 2 of those were his parents and only 2 were students.

We have made this a national crisis when it is in fact still very unlikely to happen.

Now both sides of the political aisle are joining in. The right wants armed teachers, the left wants to enact gun control. All based on something that kills a small fraction of the number of people killed by lightning every year. A generous count of deaths at grade schools has, I think if my count is right, 76 deaths since beginning of 2010. That number includes the shooters who died and people involved off school grounds (if any) that died during a particular incident.

If we put weapons in schools in numbers great enough to reduce the numbers, what are the chances they will prevent more injuries and deaths than they cause through misuse and accident?

We are so fucked.
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [j p o] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Our district has a few drones and took training on using them for recon work. I think they are mostly for roof inspections etc though.

I wonder what would happen if we put all of the money spent on security and training into free mental health resources though.

It just feels like an arms race that doesn’t solve the problem. What is that saying when you have seconds to live the cops are minutes away.

Would every school have an armed drone? Every classroom? Most of these incidents do not last long. Getting a trained pilot and drone deployed seems unlikely in the timeframe of most of these and why would the gunman not just shoot the drone down?
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ok sounds good on the surface, but what if the drone shoots the janitor who is now licensed to be running around with his gun out now? Or some teacher? I have a feeling that a person working a drone like a video game is going to be a lot less careful when encountering people running around with guns drawn that actual cops on the scene.

Now a drone or drones to capture what is happening I real time with someone relaying information to the first on scene, that could be a huge help now that there will be more good guys with guns running around than bad guys. There has to be some system now to sort those out quickly, every second could be another kid death. Drones getting in quickly before first on scene cops would be great to have. They might even take attention away if the shooter becomes aware of them, no really knowing if they have deadly force on them or not.. Or just knowing he is found out and making a run for it.

And it seems like they could get there in front too, once you deploy the swat team(who have these things) send it out ahead in a straight line vs the slow road they are taking. Have the operator in the vehicle so he is on scene the same time as the calvary. And this way would be really cheap, drones are just kid toys nowadays, and priced accordingly.
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Let's just say knowing what I know based upon my licensing (FAA Commercial Drone) & unemployed technology, there is lethal nano tech that would blow your mind. Will it make its way to LEO? Maybe. If it is to happen, we are 5-10 years away. Cost & operating environment will also be factors.
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
These things would cost millions of dollars each. We're not talking about a DJI drone carrying around a 100g camera.

What school district could afford something like this? How many police departments even have bomb robots that move at a snail's pace?

What about locked doors? I don't even know if the military has a breaching robot. That alone will cost a ton of money. And it would probably still need a trained team to carry and use it.
Last edited by: FishyJoe: Mar 12, 18 11:55
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [Moonrocket] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Moonrocket wrote:
Our district has a few drones and took training on using them for recon work. I think they are mostly for roof inspections etc though.

I wonder what would happen if we put all of the money spent on security and training into free mental health resources though.

It just feels like an arms race that doesn’t solve the problem. What is that saying when you have seconds to live the cops are minutes away.

Would every school have an armed drone? Every classroom? Most of these incidents do not last long. Getting a trained pilot and drone deployed seems unlikely in the timeframe of most of these and why would the gunman not just shoot the drone down?

I wholeheartedly agree more needs to be done regarding mental health. That said, would "free mental heath resources" have stopped any of these shooters?

Florida School Shooter: Was receiving mental health treatment. Stopped and refused to go back about 1 year prior to shooting. No financial issue regarding treatment.

Virginia Tech Shooter: Diagnosed with severe anxiety. Was receiving "free" mental health treatment along with "free" special education courses.

Texas Church Shooter: Actually escaped from a mental health facility which was provided to him at no direct charge to him.

Aurora Theater Shooter: Self-reported to his college counselor. He was receiving treatment from 3 different doctors and medication at no cost to him.

Sandy Hook Shooter: Mother tried to get him committed, but he was an adult and could not be locked up without his consent. No financial issue regarding treatment.

There seems to be a trend in these cases and lack of mental health resources was not an issue in any of them.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JSA wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
My understanding is that what ends these things typically is the cops showing up, not necessarily even taking the shooter out but just being on the scene.

So, a stealthy drone wouldn't do much good there.

And if they are inside, would a drone do any good at all?


You can fly a drone indoors. I think he is envisioning hovering drones, not fixed wing drones. That said, drones capable of carrying weapon systems are very large and very loud.

You guys can't see the forest for the trees. The drone has a camera, so it provides information, which is tactically and strategically useful. Further, the drone IS a weapon. Just because it doesn't go pew-pew does not mean you can't use it to attack a shooter. Even if the pilot can't make a direct hit it would be a hell of a distraction to someone trying to carry out a plan.
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [Big Endian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Big Endian wrote:
JSA wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
My understanding is that what ends these things typically is the cops showing up, not necessarily even taking the shooter out but just being on the scene.

So, a stealthy drone wouldn't do much good there.

And if they are inside, would a drone do any good at all?


You can fly a drone indoors. I think he is envisioning hovering drones, not fixed wing drones. That said, drones capable of carrying weapon systems are very large and very loud.


You guys can't see the forest for the trees. The drone has a camera, so it provides information, which is tactically and strategically useful. Further, the drone IS a weapon. Just because it doesn't go pew-pew does not mean you can't use it to attack a shooter. Even if the pilot can't make a direct hit it would be a hell of a distraction to someone trying to carry out a plan.

You watch WAY too many movies. It simply doesn't work like that. For instance, is the drone going to open a classroom door to search each classroom? And then you are asking an operator to hit a moving target. Most guys wouldn't even be able to land a drone on a specific spot on a floor much less trying to hit a moving body.

https://www.miles4matt.run/
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There seems to be a trend in these cases and lack of mental health resources was not an issue in any of them. //

The trend is that there is no data base for any of this and all of them could just go buy an AR-15 in an instant. In the last case it was widely known it appears about his problems, but once again nothing on the computers at gun stores to tell them not to sell to this guy. I know a lot of this debate tends to fall on particular weapons and such, but really, common sense dictates that this data base has to get off of paper and into the real world, and someone needs to know at purchase point about borderline and over the line individuals..
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There's always this classic:




War is god
Quote Reply
Re: Using drones to take out school shooters and other bad guys [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
There seems to be a trend in these cases and lack of mental health resources was not an issue in any of them. //

The trend is that there is no data base for any of this and all of them could just go buy an AR-15 in an instant. In the last case it was widely known it appears about his problems, but once again nothing on the computers at gun stores to tell them not to sell to this guy. I know a lot of this debate tends to fall on particular weapons and such, but really, common sense dictates that this data base has to get off of paper and into the real world, and someone needs to know at purchase point about borderline and over the line individuals..

I have said this multiple times.

My point being - no amount of "free mental health treatment" would have altered the outcome of these cases. We need to worry less about putting more money into mental health and, instead, re-evaluate how we treat mental health and patient privacy.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply

Prev Next