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SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death
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Interesting case raising a new issue regarding capital punishment. Gorsuch had a good quote:

"The Eighth Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death — something that, of course, isn’t guaranteed to many people, including most victims of capital crimes."
— Justice Neil Gorsuch

Summary:

Details: Russell Bucklew, a convicted murderer sentenced to death 22 years ago, argued that a rare medical condition he has would make lethal injection extremely painful, per the Washington Post. Justice Neil Gorsuch wrote that Bucklew failed to propose an alternative method of capital punishment that would be less painful, arguing that it shouldn't be a difficult task unless the inmate is simply seeking to delay his execution.

https://www.axios.com/...f3-4f54ff6c7e0b.html


Decision: https://www.supremecourt.gov/...pdf/17-8151_1qm2.pdf

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Instead of "many" people, he should have wrote "any" people, and he should never have put the "most" in front of victims of capital crimes. Nobody gets a guarantee of a painless death.

Man, I'm already regretting this appointment.
Last edited by: SH: Apr 1, 19 17:48
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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"The Eighth Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death — something that, of course, isn’t guaranteed to many people, including most victims of capital crimes."


I thought conservatives were opposed to relying on foriegn law...and here he is relying on the code of Hammurabi.


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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [sslothrop] [ In reply to ]
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sslothrop wrote:
"The Eighth Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death — something that, of course, isn’t guaranteed to many people, including most victims of capital crimes."


I thought conservatives were opposed to relying on foriegn law...and here he is relying on the code of Hammurabi.



There is an ocean of distance between his rationale and lex talionis.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
... lex talionis.


Thanks for sending me to look that up. It might help in my Jeopardy! qualifier next week

No one knows for sure what that moment of Death feels like ... even the most violent outcomes could be peaceful to the victims [Black Dahlia could have gone quietly after she was strangled - I believe she was drugged & didn't struggle - and never felt all the butchery that happened to her afterwards], yet a quick but fatal brain aneurysm could have been a moment of excruciating pain beyond measure

"She went peacefully" or "He never felt a thing" could be complete bullshit

I wasn't with my Dad went he died, but my brothers told me he struggled and fought to take each breath, because he didn't want ANY of them to be his last - he was so scared, my one brother said, more scared than we'd EVER seen him

We know he died from Cancer, but Fear was a contributing factor

Blessed are the Nobodies, for Theirs is the Kingdom of Fascinating Stories
Last edited by: RandMart: Apr 1, 19 18:11
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [SH] [ In reply to ]
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SH wrote:
Instead of "many" people, he should have wrote "any" people, and he should never have put the "most" in front of victims of capital crimes. Nobody gets a guarantee of a painless death.

Man, I'm already regretting this appointment.

His statement is completely reasonable. What's your issue with it.
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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I'm betting at some point, capital punishment is ruled unconstitutional.




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
I'm betting at some point, capital punishment is ruled unconstitutional.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Most of the cases going back to 1980 that address the Constitutionality of capital punishment in general have gone 7-2 or 8-1.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
I'm betting at some point, capital punishment is ruled unconstitutional.

Except it is enshrined in it.
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
veganerd wrote:
I'm betting at some point, capital punishment is ruled unconstitutional.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Most of the cases going back to 1980 that address the Constitutionality of capital punishment in general have gone 7-2 or 8-1.

Times change. Its closer than that now and they are apparently arguing about it and getting pissy with each other.

I don't think it will be anytime soon but maybe in a few more decades. It is the general direction of most of the world, i don't see why we won't also end up there.




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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Like segregation?

Like anti-sodomy laws?

Please explain.
Last edited by: oldandslow: Apr 1, 19 20:03
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
JSA wrote:
veganerd wrote:
I'm betting at some point, capital punishment is ruled unconstitutional.


I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Most of the cases going back to 1980 that address the Constitutionality of capital punishment in general have gone 7-2 or 8-1.


Times change. Its closer than that now and they are apparently arguing about it and getting pissy with each other.

I don't think it will be anytime soon but maybe in a few more decades. It is the general direction of most of the world, i don't see why we won't also end up there.

LOL! Yeah! Because the US is so quick to adopt trends from other parts of the world!

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
I'm betting at some point, capital punishment is ruled unconstitutional.

Except it is enshrined in it.

The constitution is flawed and regardless, legal interpretations change along with society's views and the inevitable turnover of justices.




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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It seems like the ruling should be the condemned has a right to a death not more painful than his victim. A hair's breadth less than that, tough cookies.
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
Like segregation?

Like anti-sodomy laws?

Please explain.

Neither of those are written in the Constitution
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
I'm betting at some point, capital punishment is ruled unconstitutional.

Except it is enshrined in it.

The constitution is flawed and regardless, legal interpretations change along with society's views and the inevitable turnover of justices.

It is not interpretation it is literally "deprive of life" the only way to make unconstitutional would be by amendment.

Mot saying laws won't be adjusted penalties lessened, but it will always be constitutional
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
veganerd wrote:
JSA wrote:
veganerd wrote:
I'm betting at some point, capital punishment is ruled unconstitutional.


I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Most of the cases going back to 1980 that address the Constitutionality of capital punishment in general have gone 7-2 or 8-1.


Times change. Its closer than that now and they are apparently arguing about it and getting pissy with each other.

I don't think it will be anytime soon but maybe in a few more decades. It is the general direction of most of the world, i don't see why we won't also end up there.

LOL! Yeah! Because the US is so quick to adopt trends from other parts of the world!

The US is founded on principles from other parts of the world. I didn't say we aren't slow to change, we are although i think we are too slow. I think a big reason why we are is because too many people think we are so great we don't need to change or can't learn from other countries. But none the less, there are SC justices who agree with me on this, and i predict there will be more in the future. Or perhaps we will just have a president declare it a national emergency and do away with it with an executive order. Thanks trump!




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
I'm betting at some point, capital punishment is ruled unconstitutional.

Except it is enshrined in it.

The constitution is flawed and regardless, legal interpretations change along with society's views and the inevitable turnover of justices.

It is not interpretation it is literally "deprive of life" the only way to make unconstitutional would be by amendment.

Mot saying laws won't be adjusted penalties lessened, but it will always be constitutional


The constitution does not say we must deprive anyone of life. It says the state can't execute without due process. That does not bar the government from doing away with the death penalty altogether.




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
I'm betting at some point, capital punishment is ruled unconstitutional.

We can move away from it without requiring it to be unconstitutional.
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
SH wrote:
Instead of "many" people, he should have wrote "any" people, and he should never have put the "most" in front of victims of capital crimes. Nobody gets a guarantee of a painless death.

Man, I'm already regretting this appointment.


His statement is completely reasonable. What's your issue with it.

All my proposed corrections are included in my comment. There's no misdirection here.
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:


Except it is enshrined in it.


"Enshrine" isn't the right word. It's in the section that limits the power of the government. Because the framers didn't trust government to take life without providing strong protections to those accused. I'd called things that are "enshrined" to be the enumerated functions of government in the Constitution proper.

Capital punishment isn't an enumerated power. Doesn't have to be performed.

I agree that it's unlikely to become un-Constitutional, though. I'm just arguing it's not "enshrined."
Last edited by: trail: Apr 1, 19 21:06
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [SH] [ In reply to ]
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SH wrote:
veganerd wrote:
I'm betting at some point, capital punishment is ruled unconstitutional.

We can move away from it without requiring it to be unconstitutional.


True




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Russell Bucklew, a convicted murderer sentenced to death 22 years ago, argued that a rare medical condition he has would make lethal injection extremely painful

"Bullshit (slams gavel), next case."

I'd make a great Justice.

"I'm just a man, no more or no less; bad as the worst, good as the best" - W
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
Quote:
Russell Bucklew, a convicted murderer sentenced to death 22 years ago, argued that a rare medical condition he has would make lethal injection extremely painful


"Bullshit (slams gavel), next case."

I'd make a great Justice.

This seems to be about more than just this case. Indeed, unusually, members of SCOTUS were arguing about the other two recent death penalty cases within this ruling...

https://www.cnn.com/...w-alabama/index.html
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Re: SCOTUS Ruling: 8th Amendment does not guarantee a prisoner a painless death [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
I'm betting at some point, capital punishment is ruled unconstitutional.

Except it is enshrined in it.

The constitution is flawed and regardless, legal interpretations change along with society's views and the inevitable turnover of justices.

It is not interpretation it is literally "deprive of life" the only way to make unconstitutional would be by amendment.

Mot saying laws won't be adjusted penalties lessened, but it will always be constitutional


The constitution does not say we must deprive anyone of life. It says the state can't execute without due process. That does not bar the government from doing away with the death penalty altogether.

Yeah, that's exactly what I said (although you skipped the part where it would still be Constitutional)
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