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Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want!
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Oh goody!

Someone needs to explain the "logic" here to me. The Glock Modular Handgun System (MHS), which was rejected by the Army, is basically a Glock 19 slide on a Glock 17 frame. Now, Glock is going to release a civilian version - the Glock 19X.

So, I have to ask ... WHY???????




This has to be one of the ugliest Glocks ever. But that is not my issue.

IMO, the Glock 19 is the best variant of the Glock. It is the perfect size for most people. The FBI certainly thinks so as it issues the Glock 19M. The Glock 17 is the full sized version but, IMO it is far too bulky for anything but open holster carry. The 19 certainly feels better in my hand and is barely concealable.

So, what is the hardest thing about carrying concealed? The hand grip. The bigger the hand grip, the more you are going to print. That is why this ABOMINATION was created:




So, when did Glock do with the 19X (the civilian version of the Glock MHS)? They put the BIGGER frame of the Glock 17 under the smaller Glock 19 slide. WHY???

A shorter barrel means less accuracy. So, what you gain with going with the larger Glock 17 is a more accurate pistol. But, Glock has decided to give you the hassle of the bigger frame with the (slightly) reduced accuracy of the smaller slide.

Sheesh!

Here is the article: https://www.yahoo.com/...tol-u-132800480.html

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Im guessing for people like me with gorilla paws? I have weird hands. Short fingers but massive palms. Buying gloves is a nightmare, and longer grips are good for me. I know you can get those grip extenders but i dont own any handguns so i dont really care.




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
Im guessing for people like me with gorilla paws? I have weird hands. Short fingers but massive palms. Buying gloves is a nightmare, and longer grips are good for me. I know you can get those grip extenders but i dont own any handguns so i dont really care.

Why would you not get the larger Glock 17 in that case?

This just doesn't make sense to me. If you cannot get a good grip on the Glock 19, why would you not go up to the Glock 17 and get the benefit of the longer barrel?

If you want to carry, it still does not make sense. As I said above, the biggest issue with concealed carry is concealing the grip. A longer barrel typically is not that much more difficult to conceal. It is the grip that tends to stick out and print.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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You make good points and obviously know more about this than me.

What if you wear daisy dukes and want to conceal?




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
You make good points and obviously know more about this than me.

What if you wear daisy dukes and want to conceal?



If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
This has to be one of the ugliest Glocks ever.


LOOKS GOOD TO ME:


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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
veganerd wrote:
You make good points and obviously know more about this than me.

What if you wear daisy dukes and want to conceal?


Damn, you could conceal that thing if you were wearing nothing at all!




who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
JSA wrote:
veganerd wrote:
You make good points and obviously know more about this than me.

What if you wear daisy dukes and want to conceal?




Damn, you could conceal that thing if you were wearing nothing at all!

Yep. That's how Duffy carries.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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I would only be interested if they made a Nerf version.
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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The 19x has a marksman level barrel so it's actually more accurate than either the 17 or the 19. With the 17 frame you get 2 more rounds over the 19. Remember, it was conceived for use by a group that doesn't conceal carry, and is now marketed to people who won't either.

I'm guessing it will be a very successful gun for Glock.

"...the street finds its own uses for things"
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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My first hand gun was a Glock. I sold it after six months because it felt like 2x4 in my hand.
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [AutomaticJack] [ In reply to ]
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AutomaticJack wrote:
The 19x has a marksman level barrel so it's actually more accurate than either the 17 or the 19. With the 17 frame you get 2 more rounds over the 19. Remember, it was conceived for use by a group that doesn't conceal carry, and is now marketed to people who won't either.

I'm guessing it will be a very successful gun for Glock.


Putting a match grade barrel in the 19X will only add marginal accuracy benefits most of which are negligible unless you go out past 25 yards.

See here: https://primaryandsecondary.com/...s3f-zev-wilson.1727/

In addition, those benefits are offset by two huge factors: 1) The shorter barrel of the 19 vs the 17. 2) The shorter sight picture of the 19 vs the 17. Thus, it is highly unlikely the 19X is more accurate than the 17. The added length of the barrel/slide on the 17 will increase accuracy more than a match grade barrel on the 19. This is the reason competition shooters go with the 17L or the 34.

EDIT TO ADD: The added weight of the 17 slide over the 19 will reduce muzzle rise and perceived kick-back, thus making the 17 more accurate for follow-up shots than the 19.

If accuracy is your biggest concern, go with the 17 with a match grade barrel (or the 17L or 34).

Using a 17 frame and a 19 slide makes no sense. You mention the extra 2 rounds. Well, you can use a Glock 17 mag in a Glock 19. If you want the extra grip, use a 17 mag with a grip extender. That way, you have all the benefits of the 17 frame for grip and capacity, but can still use it in compact mode if you desire.

You mention the Glock MHS was designed for military personnel who do not conceal carry. Correct. So, why not go with the Glock 17 and get the added accuracy? Also, one of the biggest reasons the FBI went with the Glock 19 size (and why many police departments are moving the the Glock 19 size) is because the Glock 19 fits far more people than the Glock 17. Again, if you open carry in the military and want more rounds, go with the mag extender. If you need a bigger grip, go with the 17 mags and a grip extender.

Finally, we are talking about the civilian version of the MHS, which will be the Glock 19X. To whom is that being marketed? Why would you want that? What civilians are going to regularly open carry? If you are going to regularly open carry and need a bigger grip, why not go with the more accurate 17?

Given all the factors I list above, I cannot see any logical reason why anyone would prefer the 19X to the alternatives.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Last edited by: JSA: Jan 7, 18 9:48
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [Perseus] [ In reply to ]
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Perseus wrote:
My first hand gun was a Glock. I sold it after six months because it felt like 2x4 in my hand.

Which Glock?

I'm not a Glock fanboi. I prefer the SA XD(M) line. But, I shoot a lot of Glocks and my bet-your-life and/or SHF gun would be a stock Glock 19 all day, every day.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Supposedly I will have the new FBI Glock at some point this year.

2018 Races:
Augusta 70.3, September 23rd | Waco 70.3, Waco, TX, October 28th | Cartagena 70.3, Cartagena, Colombia December 2nd

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
...Using a 17 frame and a 19 slide makes no sense. You mention the extra 2 rounds. Well, you can use a Glock 17 mag in a Glock 19. If you want the extra grip, use a 17 mag with a grip extender. That way, you have all the benefits of the 17 frame for grip and capacity, but can still use it in compact mode if you desire....

Given all the factors I list above, I cannot see any logical reason why anyone would prefer the 19X to the alternatives.

I think JSA is spot on here.

Just use a G17 mag in a G19. If you want to clean it up a bit, add one of these:




The Universal Triathlete's Creed: Anybody faster than me is a genetically gifted, chemically enhanced freak with no life; anybody slower than me is a pathetic slacker.
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
Oh goody!

Someone needs to explain the "logic" here to me.

Glock will sell a lot of them to the gunnuts and fanboys with no additional development cost. I don't see the appeal but have no doubt many thousands will be sold. (I carry a G22 professionally ... I'd carry a G19 if I could, but I can't.) I'd like to see a 19 sized singlestack 9mm.

*****
"In case of flood climb to safety"
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [Perseus] [ In reply to ]
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Perseus wrote:
My first hand gun was a Glock. I sold it after six months because it felt like 2x4 in my hand.

Agree. Never owned a glock but looked at them when I bought my first tupperware gun. Couldn't see the appeal at all, ugly as sin and felt like a brick. Much prefer the XDm.
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
Perseus wrote:
My first hand gun was a Glock. I sold it after six months because it felt like 2x4 in my hand.


Which Glock?

I'm not a Glock fanboi. I prefer the SA XD(M) line. But, I shoot a lot of Glocks and my bet-your-life and/or SHF gun would be a stock Glock 19 all day, every day.

I don't remember the model number but it was a full size .40 cal. I don't question the reliability of a Glock I just don't care for how they feel in your hand. They are so widely used that I think it would be difficult for them to make significant ergonomic changes to their core line up without alienating existing Glock owners. I have several H&K hand guns and a SA XDs. When I used to shoot regularly I quit cleaning the H&K's to see when they'd malfunction. 12 months later and zero issues I gave up and started cleaning them again.
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [A-A-Ron] [ In reply to ]
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I looked at the G17 as well. Ended up with an XDm9 with 4.5 barrel. Still my favorite gun. I have an Xd Mod2 that I really like as well.

Agree with the OP. I have a friend who bought the Sig p320 (carry?), with a short barrel and full size grip. I never understood the point.

I did not get out shooting much last year. Need to change that.
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [J-No] [ In reply to ]
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Statement from Glock regarding this abomination:


GLOCK, Inc. introduces their first ever “Crossover” pistol, the GLOCK 19X, which combines the best features of two of its most popular and most trusted field-tested platforms. The full-size frame and the compact slide have joined forces to produce the ideal pistol for all conditions and all situations.

“The G19X was developed for the military and is a practical everyday pistol that will do what you need it to do, when you need it to; every time, in every condition,” says GLOCK VP Josh Dorsey. “The pistol was developed for the military using GLOCK’s combat proven experience with consideration to efficiency, dependability and durability. Through rigorous testing, the G19X stands out above the competition and has the ability to function in all situations with ultimate reliability and accuracy. Our goal was to meet the demanding needs of the military while maintaining our standard of perfection. With proven results, the G19X delivers maximum efficiency and trustworthiness.”


http://19x.glock.us/



WTF????

Then there is this think-tank:


“The GLOCK 19X is an intelligent crossover between the flagship, full-size G17 and the popular, concealable G19. With the implementation of new Gen5 characteristics to further improve upon a proven design, I believe this will open the door for future possibilities of melding other platforms and calibers for even more options for consumers. The GLOCK 19X -- a hybrid pistol that'll allow you to crossover with confidence.”
Adam Scepania. The Firearms Blog


WOW. JUST, WOW!!!




If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Yes this is an ugly firearm and it's got my less than my preferred Glock ergonomics (grip shape and Luger grip angle), but how much difference does a shorter pistol barrel make? It's only a 1/2 inch shorter on the 19 vs the 17.

I see no significant difference in accuracy between a Sig P320 Carry (3.9 inch barrel) and Full sized (4.7 inch barrel) at normal pistol ranges (3 yards to 20 yards).

I haven't done enough back to back on 20 to 25 yards, and maybe that's where I would see a difference... but at those ranges I see more variation in the shooter than anything else. So for this Marine Corps Expert Pistol shooter, the extra barrel length doesn't make a difference... maybe if I was a better shooter it would.

The difference for the 19x over the 19 is the extra 2 rounds... but as noted there are other- and better looking- ways of achieving a 17 round magazine on a Glock 19.

Suffer Well.
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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jmh wrote:
Yes this is an ugly firearm and it's got my less than my preferred Glock ergonomics (grip shape and Luger grip angle), but how much difference does a shorter pistol barrel make? It's only a 1/2 inch shorter on the 19 vs the 17.

Minimal. But, that isn't the point. "We" accept the slightly shorter barrel/slide on the 19 because of the trade-off; i.e., easier to conceal. But, the 19X has the Glock 17 grip, which is incredibly difficult to conceal. So, why accept the less accurate slide?

The counter to that is - the Army was going to open carry. Yep. So why not go with the Glock 17 with the longer slide. Longer slide means better sight picture, long barrel, and heavier upper, which reduces recoil for follow-up shot. The Army does not spend significant time on handgun training, so, soldiers can use every advantage.

You can rightfully say the difference is "marginal," but it still begs the question - why accept the sacrifice when there is no quid pro quo in the form of concealability?

I see no significant difference in accuracy between a Sig P320 Carry (3.9 inch barrel) and Full sized (4.7 inch barrel) at normal pistol ranges (3 yards to 20 yards).


jmh wrote:
The difference for the 19x over the 19 is the extra 2 rounds... but as noted there are other- and better looking- ways of achieving a 17 round magazine on a Glock 19.

Correct.

Every gun has trade offs. Every single one. But, here they seemed to take the "bad" qualities of the 19 and 17 and mate them together.

I was at the range yesterday and started talking to one of the range officers. They will be getting in 4 of the new 19X and 2 are already pre-sold. I asked him why anyone would want this, trying to understand. He agreed with my points and could think of any reason for this gun.

I like Glocks. My SHTF and/or life-depends-on-it would be a stock Glock 19. But, I'm a curious guy and like to think things are done for a reason. I want to understand this stupid-ass firearm!

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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MORE nonsense regarding this gun! If you watch the video below, you will note a few things.

1. It is a "hybrid" Gen 4, not quite a Gen 5. That means there will be some parts that are Gen 4 and some that are Gen 5. Gee, that will be a blast trying to figure out which part I need to replace and/or upgrade!

2. It is a 2 pin model, not a 3 pin like the Gen 3/4. So ... again, it's "kinda" a Gen 5 with its 2 pins, but still uses "some" Gen 4 parts ...

3. Even though it is a 2 pin model (like the Gen 5), it has a "lip" on the end of the grip. So, you cannot use Gen 5 mags, which extend out of the front. Oh, wait, you CAN use Gen 5 magazines IF you remove the base plate and replace it with a Gen 3/4 base plate.

4. You cannot use aftermarket Glock barrels in this gun. WTF???

5. Firing pin safety. It uses a firing pin safety plunger "similar to the Glock 43." W. T. F. Now, a little snooping revealed this is a Glock 19 Gen 5 safety plunger. Ok. But, this goes back to #1 and #2 - it has some Gen 5 parts and some Gen 4 parts.



If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Now YOU can own the Glock the Army did not want! [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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This guy must have read this thread.



If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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