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I judge
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So Mrs. Windy and I went to [redacted] here in Chicago a few weeks ago for an early dinner i.e. 4ish before going to a show. It's a nice place. There was a table of three couples with a total of 5 kids two infants and three toddlers. Eh whatevs they came off hours, people need lives. What j'accuse is the fact these two to three year olds either had a phone or tablet in front of them the whole time (they were sitting before us and were still there two hours later when we left) and from observations they were super familiar with them i.e. their parents use them as a babysitter frequently. These parents looked the uninterested douche parent part (slick husbands trophy wives). IMO (you all know I don't have humble ones) I think these parents should have been paying more attention to their kids, perhaps talking to them, maybe have some toys or coloring books. I'm trying to decide if I feel sorry for these kids probably being frequently ignored or the fact these kids will grow up being introverted always on their screens with no social skills. (To forestall the "but but but they were quiet windy," I realize that had the parents acknowledged their offspring the kids would have made some noise instead of being screen zombies, but it was 4PM not 7, I wouldn't have minded kids being kids.)
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Re: I judge [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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We let our kids watch tv when we are at restaurants. The kids know how to use the tablets /phones. (2 and 4).

It makes sense that if you are going to let kids watch tv. This would be the time.
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Re: I judge [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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I get it, the grown-ups probably wanted some uninterrupted "let's pretend we're not actually parents" time

but yeah, it's way too easy for everybody.

I was on the bus the other day and a toddler screamed for ten minutes because he couldn't have his screen. The poor kid is limited to one single solution for boredom.
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Re: I judge [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
So Mrs. Windy and I went to [redacted] here in Chicago a few weeks ago for an early dinner i.e. 4ish before going to a show. It's a nice place. There was a table of three couples with a total of 5 kids two infants and three toddlers. Eh whatevs they came off hours, people need lives. What j'accuse is the fact these two to three year olds either had a phone or tablet in front of them the whole time (they were sitting before us and were still there two hours later when we left) and from observations they were super familiar with them i.e. their parents use them as a babysitter frequently. These parents looked the uninterested douche parent part (slick husbands trophy wives). IMO (you all know I don't have humble ones) I think these parents should have been paying more attention to their kids, perhaps talking to them, maybe have some toys or coloring books. I'm trying to decide if I feel sorry for these kids probably being frequently ignored or the fact these kids will grow up being introverted always on their screens with no social skills. (To forestall the "but but but they were quiet windy," I realize that had the parents acknowledged their offspring the kids would have made some noise instead of being screen zombies, but it was 4PM not 7, I wouldn't have minded kids being kids.)
You judge well. Not the slick hubbys and trophy wives, but rather the introvert inducing behaviour in front of a screen. 15 years from now those parents and all of us will pay for their poor parenting.
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Re: I judge [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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And, these parents will also brag about how smart their kids are because they can "already use my phone" and "he's going to grow up to be able to use the technology to be successful", etc. I resisted video games and phones, etc. for a long time with my kids, but even now as teenagers they can't handle the addiction, it's nuts...

What I find just as bad are the parents / caregivers out walking with their kids, yapping on their cell phones the entire time. Holy shit, lady, can't you be alone for half an hour and actually talk to and stimulate your kid???
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Re: I judge [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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i'm of two minds here: if the kids had been banging around and 'being kids,' you might have run out of patience quickly, and i can definitely sympathize with the bedraggled parent who needs to do something to keep the kids pacified for long enough to have a meal.

on the other hand: screens are basically toxic to kids under two and still pretty damned bad for a good while after that. if you throw them a screen as an emergency rescue, OK, but if it's your parenting strategy . . . those kids are screwed.

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: I judge [kiki] [ In reply to ]
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kiki wrote:
I get it, the grown-ups probably wanted some uninterrupted "let's pretend we're not actually parents" time

but yeah, it's way too easy for everybody.

I was on the bus the other day and a toddler screamed for ten minutes because he couldn't have his screen. The poor kid is limited to one single solution for boredom.

My son and daughter-in-law are trying to keep my grandson away from screens for at least 2 years, he's 8 months old today. They don't have the TV on, computer and phones are put away while he is up. They have a ton of interactive toys they use with him. But again, he's only 8 months old.

If they want to watch a show, they do it when he is down for a nap or to bed for the evening.

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
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Re: I judge [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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Our first child, we kept her away from screens as much as possible. It actually got bad enough when she started Kindergarten earlier this year she asked us how to use a computer mouse. I guess they do some computer stuff at before-school child care and she had no idea how to use a mouse.

Our second child, we keep her away from TV and phones as much as possible but its a bit harder with an older sister.

Our issue is Grandma is always showing them stuff on her phone, letting them watch TV etc. Which is funny because she dramatically limited my tv time growing up.

Wife and I also have to try really hard to keep off our phones when we are at home. Last night I felt bad when my two year old grabbed something pretending its her toy phone and said "let me look it up".

Whats ridiculous is my brother and his wife have their first born, they are both very smart (top notch degrees) but don't realize their 8 month old shouldn't be starting at a tv.
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Re: I judge [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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Back in the day we only had Dora and Bananas in Pajamas. Thirty minutes once every few days when I desperately needed a nap

Perhaps the real revolutionaries are those that keep their promises.
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Re: I judge [AndysStrongAle] [ In reply to ]
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We limited our first and were less diligent on our second, but that is true of everything, not just screen time. Now that they are older, they will happily play on their Kindles if we let them, but they are also great at finding other ways to amuse themselves. The only time they get more than 30 minutes of screen time in a day is when we are flying or sitting around in waiting rooms. That is far less that I used to get when I grew up. Sure, I could force them to find other ways of overcoming their boredom, but I don't really think that it is worth it.

The oldest has mild ADD and will hyperfocus on books or TV. Other kids her ages can easily ignore a TV, but she cannot turn her attention away from one. I often wonder if she wouldn't have developed that if we had a TV running 24/7 in the background when she was a baby.
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Re: I judge [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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The bottom line is that parenting skills nowadays totally suck. Parents have become complete idiots, just ask any teacher. My wife comments how dumbed down they are now compared to when she first starting teaching. As previous mentioned, society will pay for it later. Glad my kids are all grown up and were raised before most of this tech stuff was around. Its my grand kids I'll have to worry about, if I ever get any.
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Re: I judge [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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My 4.5 yo grand-nephew gets to watch movies on the iPad and he knows how to put it on pause and switch to facetime when Aunt Cathy calls. :-) But he also takes ice skating lessons, wants to start karate, rides his bike, plays with leggos and is mad about dinosaurs. They don't go out to dinner much since his sister is non-verbal and is currently in a hip/leg brace from surgery and her way of communication is on her iPad which has a communications program and games to stimulate her motor skills.

5 small kids to a restaurant? That would be scary enough.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: I judge [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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This. I am amazed by how many parents I see, and I'll call it as I see it, being lazy with basic parenting. I'm talking about parents giving their under 2 year old an ipad as soon as they load them in a stroller. Mini vans that pull up beside me, with 2 screens on in the back, the parent on the phone surfing the net all for the 5 minute ride to school in the morning.

I have a 8 and 6 year old and I understand the temptation, but we limit their TV and Tech time. It's tough, but as someone else noted it also seems to be the parents who can't get off their own phones(talking or surfing) for more than a few minutes.
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Re: I judge [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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iron_mike wrote:
i'm of two minds here: if the kids had been banging around and 'being kids,' you might have run out of patience quickly, and i can definitely sympathize with the bedraggled parent who needs to do something to keep the kids pacified for long enough to have a meal.

on the other hand: screens are basically toxic to kids under two and still pretty damned bad for a good while after that. if you throw them a screen as an emergency rescue, OK, but if it's your parenting strategy . . . those kids are screwed.

This. Mrs wimsey and I are pretty strict about limiting tech time for our 2 year old. Give him 5 minutes with an iPad and it's a 30 minute meltdown to get it away from him, so it's very much a last resort. We probably average 1 or 2 half hour TV programs per week for him. He will protest having to turn off the TV too, but the iPad turns him into a monster.
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Re: I judge [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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I'm with you. I much prefer the kids seated near me in restaurants running around screaming and whining.

You have no idea what these people do with their kids at home. But what they did in public is to make sure their kids weren't disrupting every other person in the room. The people I judge are the ones who bring their kids and let them ruin everyone else's meal.

We are so fucked.
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Re: I judge [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
The bottom line is that parenting skills nowadays totally suck. Parents have become complete idiots, just ask any teacher. My wife comments how dumbed down they are now compared to when she first starting teaching. As previous mentioned, society will pay for it later. Glad my kids are all grown up and were raised before most of this tech stuff was around. Its my grand kids I'll have to worry about, if I ever get any.

Na, I think there are flaws each generation of parents. This just seems to be the one of this generation.
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Re: I judge [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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"Our generation had everything figured out but this new generation is doing it all wrong" -Every Generation Ever
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Re: I judge [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
"Our generation had everything figured out but this new generation is doing it all wrong" -Every Generation Ever

Except they were my generation genius. Thanks for playing
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Re: I judge [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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No need to call me names. I was referring to the consternation throughout this thread about how these kids are going to grow up. Sorry if I offended you, I probably should have replied to a specific post.
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Re: I judge [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
I'm with you. I much prefer the kids seated near me in restaurants running around screaming and whining.

You have no idea what these people do with their kids at home. But what they did in public is to make sure their kids weren't disrupting every other person in the room. The people I judge are the ones who bring their kids and let them ruin everyone else's meal.

Not a bad point. I was a tyrant at restaurants, or out in general, and there would have been hell to pay if they were acting up. We didn't have tech back then, at the table, but there may have been a book or something to occupy their time when they were under the age of two. After that we generally colored at the table with them and just engaged together. If we went out with a group and the kids, nothing really changed.

I will judge them if they went to a restaurant, took their kids and felt it wasn't necessary to interact with them. If you're not going to include them then why bring them at all?

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
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Re: I judge [TheRef65] [ In reply to ]
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"If you're not going to include them then why bring them at all?"

you cant leave a 3 year old at the house alone.
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Re: I judge [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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I see so much of this with my kids peers, and I'm not sure what I can do other than limit my own kids. Other than thinking that they are taking the easy way out(and will pay for it later on, maybe??) it puts a lot of pressure on me because everyone else is doing it. I remember when I used that line as a kid to my parents, don't think it worked then, and it doesnt work for mine now..

But I can hear all these 1st and 2nd graders talking fortnight all the time, and we have yet to have a real game in out house, other than some hand eye coordination ones on the iPad, my iPad. I give my kid 10 minutes of iPad time after dinner, but I would say he looses it at least 4 days a week as a consequence to bad behavior, so maybe 20 to 30 minutes a week now. The 4 year olds have no time as of yet, we just started letting them watch their brother for his 10 minutes.

I know this battle is going to get a lot harder soon, he gets to play learning games at school on computers there, and at the gym they have a Mario cart game he likes. But in the meantime they have all learned about outside play, and given the choice, they beg to go outside. So my hope is that if I can foster that attitude for just a couple more years, it will be sticky and when the floodgates open for them on screens, they will have their own willpower and knowledge that too much is not good for you..

But you are right, it seems to be the prevalent thought right now with young'ens, give them a screen and you can have some peace and quiet for awhile. I really would like more of that too, but at what cost??
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Re: I judge [patentattorney] [ In reply to ]
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patentattorney wrote:
"If you're not going to include them then why bring them at all?"

you cant leave a 3 year old at the house alone.

If you do you have to make sure the dog crate is latched.

We are so fucked.
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Re: I judge [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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We don't.

We eat out with ours once twice a week and when on vacation they come to the bar between 5-7

We have a one hour window for eating out, maybe 80 mins before they lose patience so we can do burger, steaks, brasserie, pizza

When they were much smaller we'd do very long liquid brunches but now that's out

Our kids have tablets only for the car, they are 3 and 5, other than that they generally do not watch TV everyday

We prefer they do craft drawing after school rather than tv
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Re: I judge [patentattorney] [ In reply to ]
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patentattorney wrote:
"If you're not going to include them then why bring them at all?"

you cant leave a 3 year old at the house alone.

True but if your plans are to be going out with friends, why would you be bringing a 3 year old in the first place?

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
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