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Football is turning to sh*t
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I understand that this is the Vikings desperately trying to win a SuperBowl but at what price? And they had a winner in Case who I think would have taken a lot less:

Former Washington Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins plans to sign a three-year, fully guaranteed $84 million contract with the Minnesota Vikings on Thursday, sources tell ESPN's Adam Schefter.

The landmark deal will make Cousins the highest-paid quarterback in the league.
"No final decisions have been made," Cousins' agent, Mike McCartney, said Tuesday. "The plan is to visit Minnesota first. That's all we can say right now."

Only an idiot would turn down this deal. Cousins was dealt a shitty hand at first but really turned it around. Highest paid QB ever!

"If one does not know to which port one is sailing, no wind is favorable." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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Yep. I don't understand it at all. Cousins is a nice QB, but this is nuts. This coming after Jimmy G got obscene money.

If these guys are worth this much, what does the Pack have to give Rodgers? $40M/year???

At this rate, the only way to sustain winning is for your HOF QB to marry a supermodel.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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There appears to be around 20 people on the planet that can play NFL QB well'ish. It appears to be one of the rarest skills around. If one of those 20 hit the open market they are gonna get paid.

I don't get why they dumped Keenum, or maybe he dumped them. But teams don't really have an option. It is really, really hard to win without a top 20 QB. Pay the price or lose is what it comes down to.

We are so fucked.
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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jkca1 wrote:
I understand that this is the Vikings desperately trying to win a SuperBowl but at what price? And they had a winner in Case who I think would have taken a lot less:

Former Washington Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins plans to sign a three-year, fully guaranteed $84 million contract with the Minnesota Vikings on Thursday, sources tell ESPN's Adam Schefter.

The landmark deal will make Cousins the highest-paid quarterback in the league.
"No final decisions have been made," Cousins' agent, Mike McCartney, said Tuesday. "The plan is to visit Minnesota first. That's all we can say right now."

Only an idiot would turn down this deal. Cousins was dealt a shitty hand at first but really turned it around. Highest paid QB ever!

That's right up there with this is the most stable and accomplished White House ever.
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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How is this a sign of football turning to shit? You can argue the rules changes that have turned it into a QB-dominated league, the constant reviews and refs fucking them up (i.e. not knowing what is and isn't a catch), the politicization of the league, corporate NFL getting in the way of the entertainment of the league, etc etc...I'm not sure how Kirk Cousins signing with the Vikings is an example though...if anything I think it makes Minnesota a very scary team for next season, he's better than Case imo, and it was their one glaring weakness - Case wasn't BAD, but I tihnk Cousins is better. Them and Philly should be very, very good next season.
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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but, but Kaepernick...

Ok, a non-sequiter but his name came to mind when discussing over-paid, over-valued QBs.
Last edited by: JD21: Mar 13, 18 13:20
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]
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Case had a hell of a year in Minn. I think the operations people in Minn didnt think he could reproduce the year. So you trade a similar case in '17 for what Cousins has replicated the last couple of years.

Also, Cousins could command more money because his situation was different than prior QBs where teams could leverage the 5th year rookie option/franchise tags/etc.
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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If these guys are worth this much, what does the Pack have to give Rodgers? $40M/year???


Most team owners would give their left nut for a QB like Rodgers. He should be paid like the top 3 QB he is.

All you "owners" need to figure out how you are going to make cap space for him.

Suffer Well.
Last edited by: jmh: Mar 13, 18 13:27
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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Y'all locked down the premier QB in the market for almost nothing last week, so quit your bitching.

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing." -- Ron Swanson
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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jmh wrote:
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If these guys are worth this much, what does the Pack have to give Rodgers? $40M/year???


Most team owners would give their left nut for a QB like Rodgers. He should be paid like the top 3 QB he is.

All you "owners" need to figure out how you are going to make cap space for him.


How did that work out for Baltimore?

If pay Rodgers what he is "worth," then I don't want to hear him bitch about the defense, b/c it will continue to suck. Then he better be ready to win every single game single-handedly.

Packers cut Jordy Nelson and agreed to terms with Jimmy Graham today. Curious how A-A-ron feels about that.

BTW, how much is Danica's net worth?

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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jkca1 wrote:
I understand that this is the Vikings desperately trying to win a SuperBowl but at what price? And they had a winner in Case who I think would have taken a lot less:


Former Washington Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins plans to sign a three-year, fully guaranteed $84 million contract with the Minnesota Vikings on Thursday, sources tell ESPN's Adam Schefter.

The landmark deal will make Cousins the highest-paid quarterback in the league.
"No final decisions have been made," Cousins' agent, Mike McCartney, said Tuesday. "The plan is to visit Minnesota first. That's all we can say right now."

Only an idiot would turn down this deal. Cousins was dealt a shitty hand at first but really turned it around. Highest paid QB ever!


Highest paid until Rodgers & Ryan's contract gets redone. I'm no cap expert but this writer broke down why the Cousins signing won't break the bank for the Vikings (if indeed Cousins signs with the Vikings).

http://www.startribune.com/...k-cousins/476468213/
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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You may know better than I, but I sense Rodgers rather win another SB than get paid. I think gets exactly what you said, that to build a team he needs to be paid a reasonable amount.

But as the #2 or #3 QB in the league he is way underpaid.

Danica- good thing she has sponsors that support her novelty and not having to make ends meet based upon just results. But she's done okay for herself about $60M.

Average to below average driver- no wins, no top 5s, only a handful of top 10s- but exceptional sponsorship dollars.

Suffer Well.
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [jmh] [ In reply to ]
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jmh wrote:
You may know better than I, but I sense Rodgers rather win another SB than get paid. I think gets exactly what you said, that to build a team he needs to be paid a reasonable amount.

I HOPE that is the case. From the scuttlebutt around town, Rodgers will take a little less money if it is specifically used to fill some glaring holes via free agency.

jmh wrote:
But as the #2 or #3 QB in the league he is way underpaid.

No question about it. It is just frustrating to see teams destroy the market with QBs who are not at the level to get paid the way they are getting paid.

jmh wrote:
Danica- good thing she has sponsors that support her novelty and not having to make ends meet based upon just results. But she's done okay for herself about $60M.
That ain't no Giselle money ... Damn ...

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]
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Brownie28 wrote:
How is this a sign of football turning to shit? You can argue the rules changes that have turned it into a QB-dominated league, the constant reviews and refs fucking them up (i.e. not knowing what is and isn't a catch), the politicization of the league, corporate NFL getting in the way of the entertainment of the league, etc etc...I'm not sure how Kirk Cousins signing with the Vikings is an example though...if anything I think it makes Minnesota a very scary team for next season, he's better than Case imo, and it was their one glaring weakness - Case wasn't BAD, but I tihnk Cousins is better. Them and Philly should be very, very good next season.


If you agree that leagues have implemented salary caps using them to keep overall costs down, and also to maintain a competitive balance by restricting richer clubs from signing more top players than their rivals here are the problems I see, some old, some new:


1. The Vikings are now committed for 3 years to Cousins and this signing will start more deals for guaranteed money. This is potentially a great deal for the players, bad for the front office and fan base. If the player gets hurt or doesn't perform you have to pay him. Ugh. If Cousins goes out in the first game next year with a back problem you will be carrying his salary for 3 long years.


2. Since you have a salary cap overpaying for a player hurts the entire team by definition. SF just took a multi-million dollar chance on a guy that has not played a year in the league. The Browns are on their millionth QB. Chicago paid 17 million for who last year? Which one of those teams is known as a leader in the NFL? Now imagine if those teams had guaranteed salaries for their QB's....Ugh.

3. What are Tom Brady and Mr. Rogers now worth? Compare them to Cousins and tell me what they are worth. Just toss out a number you believe reasonable for what they have done and will do compared to Cousins. And then tell us how you pay them their new worth and still remain competitive under the existing cap structure.

Again, this is great for players but as a fan I think it sucks.

"If one does not know to which port one is sailing, no wind is favorable." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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I find it so amazing that someone gives more feelings for their ten getting screwed by a guy that can't play being injured than they are that the injured guy could be out of a career let alone have an injury that could cripple his life.

Do you even consider that the reason that bad teams overpay and chase mediocre QBs is because they are hoping to buy their way out of their own ineptitude?

The Vikings are now committed to a QB who will put up at least the numbers he has put up because he will now be supported by better receivers, runners and a better defense. It is money well spent. You complain about the Garrapolo contract because he doesn't have a track record yet ignore KCs very real quality track record while you bash his guaranteed three year contract.

I have to ask --- have the kids been playing on your lawn today?
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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jkca1 wrote:
I understand that this is the Vikings desperately trying to win a SuperBowl but at what price? And they had a winner in Case who I think would have taken a lot less:

Former Washington Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins plans to sign a three-year, fully guaranteed $84 million contract with the Minnesota Vikings on Thursday, sources tell ESPN's Adam Schefter.

The landmark deal will make Cousins the highest-paid quarterback in the league.
"No final decisions have been made," Cousins' agent, Mike McCartney, said Tuesday. "The plan is to visit Minnesota first. That's all we can say right now."

Only an idiot would turn down this deal. Cousins was dealt a shitty hand at first but really turned it around. Highest paid QB ever!

Salary cap has always made the NFL a weird sport to follow and one where 1 bad contract can have ripple effects for years.
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [Dan Os Fan] [ In reply to ]
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Dan Os Fan wrote:
I find it so amazing that someone gives more feelings for their ten getting screwed by a guy that can't play being injured than they are that the injured guy could be out of a career let alone have an injury that could cripple his life.


Do you even consider that the reason that bad teams overpay and chase mediocre QBs is because they are hoping to buy their way out of their own ineptitude?

The Vikings are now committed to a QB who will put up at least the numbers he has put up because he will now be supported by better receivers, runners and a better defense. It is money well spent. You complain about the Garrapolo contract because he doesn't have a track record yet ignore KCs very real quality track record while you bash his guaranteed three year contract.

I have to ask --- have the kids been playing on your lawn today?


I find it equally amazing that the NFL has been playing under salary cap rules since 1994 and now you get irate. Where have you been since '94? Silently protesting?

You realize that almost any employer can fire an employee for no reason right? And every player in the NFL plays voluntarily correct? I found it interesting that last year the NFL minimum salaries increase by$15,000, up to $465,000 for a rookie in 2017. That's more then an average American will make in 8 years of sitting behind a desk 50 weeks a year. And many of those workers face a much stronger chance of getting hurt on the job for a salary that is much less then a baller makes.

If the game continues to decline, and it has been declining due to a variety of reasons, eventually we will end up with soccer as our national game....Or darts.

"If one does not know to which port one is sailing, no wind is favorable." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
Packers cut Jordy Nelson
The Packers' owners are heartless.

"Nelson, 33, spent his entire 10-year career in Green Bay, but he slowed down significantly last season. His yards per catch was 9.1 in 2017, which was much lower than previous years.
But given how fast Nelson bounced back from a torn ACL in 2015 and his stellar 2016 campaign, cutting him was not an anticipated move."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-free-agency-rumors-packers-releasing-jordy-nelson-signing-jimmy-graham/ar-BBKba1p?li=BBnb7Kz


What receiver would have ended last year with stellar stats given the starting quarterback was Hundley for 9 games?


"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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jkca1 wrote:
I found it interesting that last year the NFL minimum salaries increase by$15,000, up to $465,000 for a rookie in 2017. That's more then an average American will make in 8 years of sitting behind a desk 50 weeks a year. And many of those workers face a much stronger chance of getting hurt on the job for a salary that is much less then a baller makes.

What's your point? That they should take even less than their true market value to avoid butthurting people with less valuable skills? (I'm talking about average market value...some rookies may make more than market value, but top players earn less.)

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And every player in the NFL plays voluntarily correct?

And every owner signs the player contract voluntarily.
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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I was thrilled Denver got Case for $18m a year. Kirk might be worth $28m a year but I don't see the wins to back that up and Denver has a lot of holes to fill. I was ticked off they didn't cut Damarious Thomas or force him to restructure. His body retired two years ago but his mind hasn't figured it out yet.
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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jkca1 wrote:
I understand that this is the Vikings desperately trying to win a SuperBowl but at what price? And they had a winner in Case who I think would have taken a lot less:

Former Washington Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins plans to sign a three-year, fully guaranteed $84 million contract with the Minnesota Vikings on Thursday, sources tell ESPN's Adam Schefter.

The landmark deal will make Cousins the highest-paid quarterback in the league.
"No final decisions have been made," Cousins' agent, Mike McCartney, said Tuesday. "The plan is to visit Minnesota first. That's all we can say right now."

Only an idiot would turn down this deal. Cousins was dealt a shitty hand at first but really turned it around. Highest paid QB ever!

So what are YOU going to DO about it?
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [JD21] [ In reply to ]
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JD21 wrote:
but, but Kaepernick...

Ok, a non-sequiter but his name came to mind when discussing over-paid, over-valued QBs.

When P Diddy becomes the owner of the Panthers, he's already picked Kap as the QB.
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
Y'all locked down the premier QB in the market for almost nothing last week, so quit your bitching.

You mean Kizer?
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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jkca1 wrote:
Brownie28 wrote:
How is this a sign of football turning to shit? You can argue the rules changes that have turned it into a QB-dominated league, the constant reviews and refs fucking them up (i.e. not knowing what is and isn't a catch), the politicization of the league, corporate NFL getting in the way of the entertainment of the league, etc etc...I'm not sure how Kirk Cousins signing with the Vikings is an example though...if anything I think it makes Minnesota a very scary team for next season, he's better than Case imo, and it was their one glaring weakness - Case wasn't BAD, but I tihnk Cousins is better. Them and Philly should be very, very good next season.


If you agree that leagues have implemented salary caps using them to keep overall costs down, and also to maintain a competitive balance by restricting richer clubs from signing more top players than their rivals here are the problems I see, some old, some new:


1. The Vikings are now committed for 3 years to Cousins and this signing will start more deals for guaranteed money. This is potentially a great deal for the players, bad for the front office and fan base. If the player gets hurt or doesn't perform you have to pay him. Ugh. If Cousins goes out in the first game next year with a back problem you will be carrying his salary for 3 long years.


2. Since you have a salary cap overpaying for a player hurts the entire team by definition. SF just took a multi-million dollar chance on a guy that has not played a year in the league. The Browns are on their millionth QB. Chicago paid 17 million for who last year? Which one of those teams is known as a leader in the NFL? Now imagine if those teams had guaranteed salaries for their QB's....Ugh.

3. What are Tom Brady and Mr. Rogers now worth? Compare them to Cousins and tell me what they are worth. Just toss out a number you believe reasonable for what they have done and will do compared to Cousins. And then tell us how you pay them their new worth and still remain competitive under the existing cap structure.

Again, this is great for players but as a fan I think it sucks.

It may start a trend of guaranteed contracts but that trend could also quickly reverse if these don't work out. You're argument seems to be "these teams are being stupid". And maybe they are but if the Cousins deal doesn't work out its 3 years. Its not like we're talking about a 13 year contract (see Zach Parise's NHL contract). As a vikings Fan, I support the move and say lets roll the dice and see if we can win something big in the next few years.
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Re: Football is turning to sh*t [Uncle Arqyle] [ In reply to ]
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Uncle Arqyle wrote:
Salary cap has always made the NFL a weird sport to follow and one where 1 bad contract can have ripple effects for years.

That would only get worse if all players were getting guaranteed contracts.
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