From your website

"Now we aren't saying our wheels are faster or stronger than those costing $2,000 and up. But, are their wheels any faster or stronger than ours?" Huh??? So...what you are saying is you have done no testing so you advertise in the negative and hope people are too stupid to realize it.

"Our warranty is only one year. Yes, these other companies offer longer warranty periods, most are two years, but ENVE's extends up to five years. Even with these longer warranties, we still see this as a no brainer. If something does happen to our wheels two or three years down the road, it is still way cheaper to just go buy a brand new wheel from us then have a repaired wheel from one of those extended warranties. But, we really don't see you having any problems with our wheels even five years from now." How do we know if you haven't done any R&D or testing??

"We don't mark up our products 100% or more and make huge profits off each purchase." Ok, then, share your mark-up so we can compare it to the big greedy corporate brothers.

This outta being interesting...

DFW_TRI sure is quick to jump on a statement that is NOT a negative in any way.

Sounds like DFW_TRI spent a lot for his wheels. Good for you DFW_TRI.

We wish you the best!

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Nope....DFW_tri actually bought from the only comparator listed on your website where the wheels cost LESS than yours and the Company actually put the effort into R&D and published their data. So, I can actually look and see how their wheels compare. Do you have or will you share such data? Apparently not, so instead you make the bold claim that "are their wheels any faster or stronger than ours?"

DFW_TRI The company in which you speak is 6 years old. Go back 6 years ago and they had not yet published the data and R&D which you speak of.

They designed a wheel, rode it, tested it, gave some to their friends to test and sold them for cheap.

People took a chance on their wheels and they turned out to be great.

Sounds pretty similar to us if you ask me.



Best of luck to you DFW_TRI

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If you want to answer my questions, great, here's your chance to freely advertise your start-up...if you are comfortable with statements on your website then best of luck to you...

Thanks DFW_TRI, yes we offer a beautiful full carbon fiber wheel at an unbelievable price of only $997 a set.

We do this by creating a more streamline manufacturer to rider process, by keeping our profit margins low, by not wasting money on advertising, and by making a high quality product that is so inexpensive, that if there is a problem, it makes more sense for the consumer to just buy a new one than to rely on an expensive extended warranty.

We only ask people to try our wheels for themselves before going negative on a product they have never seen, held, felt or ridden on.

Cheers,

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HAHAHAHA I cannot stop laughing, and I have to hand it to DFW as he seems to be right on the mark. You obviously do mark you wheels up quite a bit considering the same chinese wheels can be bought direct on ebay for 1/2 or less of your pricing. At least do something different or build them with whatever hubs someone would want.

Did you pay Dan for advertising? or at least ask his permission? The board doesn't take kindly to free advertisement of one's own company

How are you certain that the carbon being used is Toray? What grade Toray? Have you had an independent analysis of the materials done? Are you directly overseeing production on site? whom is handling quality control? I think the word you meant to use instead of "producing" is "sourcing" or importing.

What is it lately with people thinking they can pass one over on the board...first Dished/OISHEO, then Kwinster, now Fluid. Good luck with your chinese wheel endeavor. If you would have taken the time to go about this in the right way and different from the recent other offers this could have possibly worked out different for you. But considering the knowledge of the posters on this board and community and the fact that this chinese wheel topic has been discussed at lengths I dont think you're going to win many over here.

Take the time to design something of your own or at the very least lace them with different hubs or get the hubs customized to your business.

What is your insurance policy like in case someone experiences a failure?

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Couldn't find where these products are manufactured on their website?

Wahoo Fitness
Osymetric

..................

Putting our logo on a white label hub, like many other wheel manufacturers do, would increase our wheel price. We aren't trying to trick anyone!

Simply trying to provide riders with an alternative to a $2,000+ wheel.


Cheers,

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It doesnt really matter where they manufacture them....THEY DESIGNED AND DEVELOPED THEM! They didnt take an already available design or product slap a logo on it and say "hey we made this, we produce these." That makes it entirely different from what you are trying to do. You are trying to pass off generic chinese carbon wheels as something different than what they are, and are also comparing them to the larger companies in which they have their own shape and rims, some with their own shape, rims, and hubs. Using a finishing layer of 1k carbon doesnt make the wheel better or stronger, as it is purely cosmetic. If they are manufacturing the wheels entirely out of 1k, why do the pictures on your site show different types of materials on the internal layers?

You still didnt answer the other questions. How is your insurance policy? Whom is doing quality control checks? Are you personally overseeing the fabrication and manufacturing? how do you know the materials you are claiming are being used actually are what is being used?

A small investment up front for a small laser engraving machine and having your generic hubs laser engraved would have at least differentiated you from the others that have tried the same business model.

Looking at your story page I dont think you were able to convince your manufacturer to redesign and modify their moulds and tooling just because you promised future business, the cost of that would be quite high. I dont have a problem with someone trying to sell generic wheels, lots of very small companies do it. However you are trying to pass of these as something different or other than generics, which they are not. Most of these direct to consumer foreign vendors offer different finishing options, and that is all that you have changed here aside from slapping your own logo on it. You also were trying to take advantage of Dan and the community with your post to get free advertising.

All the other companies you are referring to created their own products. They developed something of their own. What did you design here? You took a readily available rim profile and slapped a logo on it and came in with a bunch of claims you cannot substantiate.

What makes your wheels any different than buying from an ebay/chinese generic seller? You can find the same wheels for 1/2 or less. So if you want to do generics you could offer different hubs or at least get them laser engraved, this would make you slightly different. Having a strong insurance policy in case of a failure would be a good strategy as well as it would give buyers a reason to buy generics from you as opposed to direct from manufacturer or chinese seller with no insurance policy.

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So you are saying we should spend $1000 on a product that could turn out to be crap because its not right of us to judge your Chinese sourced wheels on the 10,000 other Chinese sourced wheels that have turned out to be GARBAGE! Where do I sign up for this!? $1000 for a crap shoot is 100% up my alley!

Maybe if you want to prove your product is worth it, send it out to users here and have them test the product, write unbiased reviews on the product and then the potential buyers will feel safer than when some new kid on the wheel block says 'hey our product is 1/2 the cost of these WELL PROVEN wheels but we have no testing, no proof, no anything but our word so buy buy buy and save your hard earned money'. Without unbiased reviews or some sort of proof that your wheels wont fall apart like the other Chinese wheels, you will have a near impossible time selling to ANY educated buyers. Plus this also brings up the discussion on delamination. You have no mention of what the braking surface is made of. For being a full scale legitimate "player" in the wheel market, you lack a TON of information on your wheels that any sensible buyer would want to know. Then top it off, a Chinese "warranty" is worth about $1000 of nothing. Business regulations in China are non-existent and it is so easy for a company to fall off the face of the earth and re-open under a new name with ZERO obligations to all the previous customers who are stuck with a pile of sharp, broken carbon fiber

Don't get me wrong, they could turn out to be nice wheels but what you are asking us to do is not sensible. Why would anyone want to take the risk of buying these wheels since they are unproven. Some crappy wheels take months or a year to delaminate/break depending on how often they are ridden. Yes, your wheels may be cheap, but typical ebay carbon is much cheaper (under $500 SHIPPED) and based on your logic, we could buy 4 sets of those and still be "cheaper" than buying a set of Zipps and 2 sets to be the same cost as yours (same quality too until proven different). HOWEVER, Zipps NEVER break under normal usage. They break when they are abused or crashed. That $2000 wheelset will last 10x longer (99% positive on this) than yours so over the lifetime of those Zipps, you spend less money. You don't see resales of Chinese wheels but you ALWAYS see resales of Mavic, Zipp, Enve, etc because they are QUALITY, last forever and the one big thing..........worth it! Basically what you are admitting to is that your wheelset is disposable. When they break, toss them out because they aren't worth the trouble of replacing (goes back to our fear of replacements as well. If they were worth fixing then you'd offer a longer warranty and fix them. Companies only replace items when its not worth it to them to fix it, which says their product is so cheap to make, its more cost effective to give a new one out than take the man hours to repair it. Thus lends us to believe that these "$1000" wheels really only cost you a few bucks (lets say $50-100) to build so your "small" profit margin is something like close to 90% ???????)

From the website:

" 1k carbon fiber vastly improves the overall strength and stiffness of our wheels, compared to constructing them exclusively with UD carbon fiber"

This posted after a graph showing that your product is 1K and Zipp and Enve are unidirectional.

So are you saying your wheels are stiffer than Enve and Zipp wheels? That's some claim. Why aren't your wheels on the bikes of pro cyclists then?

No, we are not saying our wheels are stiffer or stronger than Enve or Zipp wheels in any way. We believe that Enve and Zipp produce the highest quality wheels on the planet.

We make this claim because we prototyped our wheels, (built multiple sets) using UD carbon, 3k carbon, and 1k carbon weaves. Because of this, we are confident when we say that "1k carbon fiber vastly improves the overall strength and stiffness of our wheels". This was easy to see when comparing the three builds side by side.

And to your third point, we are a new to the game, so give us some time and hopefully this will change. We just had a rider compete in the IM 70.3 World Championships in Austria riding our wheels and it seems that he can't say enough good things about them.

Best Wishes adktriguy46, Happy Holidays!

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We would be the first to admit that 8 out of 10 wheel manufacturers in Asia, produce nothing but crap. We would even venture to say that 97% of Asian produced wheels you buy on Ebay are also crap.

The thing is that not all products produced in Asia are crap, because if this were true then Trek, Felt, Zipp (not wheels), Flo, Nike, Garmin, Apple, etc would not manufacturer products there.

What we did was test several Asian manufacturers and found what we believe to be the absolute best ones with the best quality control. We then improved upon their design by internally increasing the number of carbon layers, which type of carbon is used in various spots throughout the wheel, wrapping the wheels in a 1k carbon fiber weave, and changing the pitch of the spokes. Our wheels may be manufactured in Asia, but you won't find them on Ebay. And if you find something that looks like them, cut them open and you will see that they aren't Fluid Wheels.

The warranty on our wheels is backed by us, not the manufacturer. If you have an issue with your wheels, you deal with our customer support staff, who is very good, and we will be the ones to replace your wheel.

Yes, we don't yet have many unbiased reviews out there because we are new to the game. Although they are there if you search hard. We just had a rider compete in the IM 70.3 World Championships in Austria and he has nothing but good things to say about our wheels, and he paid for them. In order to eliminate the "crap shoot" feeling you have about our wheels, we suggest you wait a few more sales before deciding if you'd like to purchase or not. This will give unbiased riders plenty of time to ride and review our wheels.

Oh, and the spokes on our wheels alone cost more than $50-100.



We wish you the best SMartin204, Happy Holidays!

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DFW_TRI We really appreciate your input here. We brought our wheels to the SlowTwitch community knowing we would get the toughest scrutiny possible. This is because Slow Twitch members are the most knowledgeable athletes on the road. We have definitely taken your words into consideration this afternoon and changed the way in which this phrase is worded.

It now reads. "But, are their wheels $1,000+ faster or stronger than ours"?

Again, we thank you for pointing this out to us, we are not trying to mislead anybody into buying our wheels. We are only here to offer a less expensive full carbon alternative.


Best wishes and Happy Holidays!

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So glad I could provide you with the legal advice you apparently didn't consider seeking prior to publishing such statements. Last piece of advice--have a lawyer look at the rest of your site. I'm a lawyer and it took me literally 60 seconds of perusing your website to find several misleading statements. I'm not sophisticated enough on wheel manufacturing to comment about those matters so I'll let others continue to comment on that front.

So I can buy any Chinese wheel for +/- $500. So for and extra $500 I can get your sticker on the same wheel?? Am I missing something??

Thank you DFW_TRI, we aren't here to mislead anybody, we wish you the best!

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Premium Carbon Fiber Wheels at a Great Price! Only $997 a set.
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We aren't trying to stop you from getting that $500 wheel if that's what you want.

What we did is spent thousands of dollars to shop around for the best manufacturer in Asia. Cutting open brand new wheels in effort to weed out the good from the garbage. We picked the best wheel out of the deck, and modified it to our desired specs. We then spent a year intensely riding these wheels and selling them in small batches for others to test before coming to you on here. In that time, we've built a nearly 2 year relationship with the manufacturer and improved upon their quality control, even down to changing the boxes in which the wheels are shipped to us. Oh, and our logo isn't a sticker, they are painted on.

We spend more than $500 a set for our wheels, plus they go through another level of US inspection, are backed by US customer support and are delivered in hand built wooden crates for no extra charge (inside the US & Canada). If you do not see the $997 value, then we definitely recommend a Chinese wheel for +/- $500.


S.Gentz, we wish you the best, and Happy Holidays!

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Steve,

You seem hesitant. Let me address your concerns. You needn't worry. When your wheels fall apart on the 366th day of ownership, you just call Fluid's customer service number which is based in the United States. All of its representatives speak perfect English and are fully trained. They will tell you in plain English that all you have to do to "extend the warranty" on your previous $1000--pardon me, $997--investment is spend another $1000, and you will get another brand new set. They will end the call with their catch phrase, "Best of luck to you and Happy Holidays!!" You still come out ahead of buying Zipps, HED, Flo or the like....oh wait, no, you don't...

Your persistence is admirable

The statement that you get your wheels shipped FREE in a FREE wooden crate is ABSOLUTE BS! That cost, like every other companies cost, is built into the price of the wheel. Plus top it off, who the F cares if they come in a "fancy" wooden box? Does that wooden box make my bike faster or lighter? Can I ride the box if your wheels break on me? Is it coated in 24k gold?

Shipping a wooden crate is ridiculously expensive so pack them in a box with proper padding and protection and you just cut over $100 off your wheel price. You can send me a free set of wheels since I just saved you $100/wheelset you sell. I'll test them for a year and report back with an unbiased review of them. If they are good or if the are garbage, I'll report my findings. If you have 100% confidence in your product then you'd have no issue sending reviewers a free pair. How do you think the rest of these cycling companies started off? They have reviewers test their product because no one trusts a new companies word. Whatever you say is just going to be taken as a lie since you are in Asia, sorry thats how it is because every Asian company before you has sent the precedent

This thread is pretty awesome.

SMartin204, Our fancy wooden boxes cost us about $11 each to make. This actually costs us less than buying paper boxes, extra packaging material and extra shipping insurance we would likely buy if they came in paper boxes.

We are in Indiana, that's a state in the US.

And we have given out free/discounted sets for users to try, but we certainly wouldn't give out a free set to anyone dropping F bombs.

We recommend reading a bit before ranting and being nasty.


We wish you the best, sorry you're so angry, Happy Holidays!

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Premium Carbon Fiber Wheels at a Great Price! Only $997 a set.
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