Where'd you deliver pizzas in Idaho? Not Flying Pie by any chance...

Been a few places....I love America. :)

 My wife and I did that 12 years ago when we moved to Hawaii. Life is expensive but we both got good jobs. We were just stuck in the ratrace on the mainland and jumped out.
Yea we live in a 1000sq foot smaller place and in a condo instead of a house, but we walk 10 min to work and have one car that we don't even drive 5k a year in.
We have about 8 to 10 years more till retirement and have thought of putting the stuff in storage and living in Tuscany or the Basque area of Spain for a while. If you have to pay rent somewhere why not someplace fun?
With the Euro up 30% and land values in Tuscany going up 10-15% a year buying would be expensive. The other posters were spot on about work or lack there of, so if you plan on Tuscany you better hurry.
B&B's are a real hard way to make a living. A bike shop is probably the only thing harder. It is nice to dream, but weigh your options carefully and best of luck. Aloha G

I have that thought all the time, though Italy wouldn't be my choice. One of these days I'm going to have the guts to do it.

where would you go jaylew?

you should come on over to africa! an amazing place.

thanks for those tips about riding in the peleton...i rode with the local club today and had a BLAST. this stuff's addictive.

toad

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http://www.kenyawilds.com/faculty.html

Tom, "sitting by the road watching the traffic go by"...you could have described the same human tendency of people anywhere.

In Montreal, Paris and Nice, people sit in cafes for hours, chatting about nothing and "people watching". I tell you, French folks know how to really relax and enjoy life on either side of the Atlantic. Ask a person in Montreal if they'd rather have a nice big house and be tied to a mortgage, working like a slave for 90 hours a week, or if they'd rather have a modest place, great clothes, eat in fine restaurants, and party often and travel the world, their answer will be the latter.

As such, here in Ontario, you'll find folks enjoying life a lot less and working much harder to support their material wealth than my good friend in Quebec, who I would argue live an intellectually and culturally more stimulating lifestyle. Its kind of like the difference between northern and southern Europe to some extent. I never hear of anyone here in Canada saying that they want to pack the bags and move to Dortmund, Hannover or Hamburg, but you always have Tuscany, Mallorca, or Provence on the list. Something about the weather and the culture depicted in the movies we see :-)

How about France you could save a bundle on toothpaste and showers! You can pass gas can't you?

Oz. My wife has a long lost cousin there (probably in Sydney). I keep telling her that she should get / keep in touch with her. I could mooch for a while, I'm not proud. As a small mammal, I could adapt well to the marsupial way of life.

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

When I got my medical discharge from the Marines (I was an officer), my wife and I went from the middle class to the poverty level overnight. I had some job offers in Denver, where I grew up. But, as Tom alluded to, Colorado is not the haven anymore many people believe it to be. We decided to settle in Milton, Florida, my wife's home town. We rented and later bought a small wood frame house. We sold one of our cars to keep out of debt. I got my wife's old bike out of the barn, repainted it, put a baby seat on it and rode around town with my infant son. My wife made some money substitute teaching. I had several part-time jobs and went to grad school on the GI Bill. After a year, I got a good, but low-paying job which has developed into a career where I am now making 10 times what I was back then.

Thinking back, even though we were poor, those were some of the happiest times we have had. We had each other and a new baby and family. It was like living in a Faulkner novel--small, southern town where everybody knows everybody. The lesson we learned, and we still say to this day--if it ever gets to the point where we want to chuck the rat race and get rid of all our material possessions, we'd do it again in a New York second.

My point--you don't have to move to Italy. There are a lot of places in the US with the values you describe. You won't find it in suburbia, though.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Would you take your girlfriend to Oz as well? LOL

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

No, I worked for Pizza Time, in Coeur d'Alene- near the Sheriffs Office. It's closed down since. No big loss, it really wasn't good pizza. That is one of the very few things I miss about the East Coast- the food.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I'd second tri-bri2's observation - don't have to go to Italy..

When we first came to USA, I had a contract in Winston-Salem, NC. My wife didn't have a work permit, so she did a lot of volunteer work. I was earning about 1500 a month after taxes, and saving 6-700 of that. Caught the bus to work, bought a $1000 car and a $450 canoe (priorities) and had a wonderful time.

Now of course we have the mortgage, the minivan, the kids, the college savings to fund, and are the poorest household in the richest county in America..

The trick is to find a nice small town well away from all the hustling over-achievers.

Also, as Marco observed, it's tough to get a work permit for the EU. It's not easy anywhere in the world, though the EU is at least possible. It took me five years of indentured servitude in the US before I could become a free agent and seek employment on my own.

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"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview

Man, this thread sucks. I have been pulling back-to-back all nighters to get some stuff done and am just wasted. That is typical for this time of year. Two months ago I was on the beach... somewhere. A month ago I was in New Zealand.

This life is pretty darn good but I would like to spend more time near the water and in warm weather.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

<<This life is pretty darn good but I would like to spend more time near the water and in warm weather.>>

Think "BikesportFlorida" Tom.

;-)

Brett

Five years ago, my oldest son, a concert muscian, met a young beautiful Italian girl while he was on tour with Michael Barshnikov in Italy. Of course they fell in love. She moved to New York City to be near him but hated the States. She moved back to Italy and my son soon after.

Now they live in Rome and were married 3 years ago. I have a wonderful 2 year old Italian grandson who speaks english and italian (as much as a 2 year old can.. Ciao Grandpa!). They have an apartment in Rome, my son has a studio in Rome (near St. Peter's) and a weekend home in Umbria. They are building a home outside of Rome and will soon move.

However, life is not a bed of roses. Being an American is Italy, my son has a hard time "getting" fulltime work with an Italian Orchestra since he is not a citzen of Italy. I'm told that is the case for employment, you must be a citizen. He does play with a Quartette in Florence but the Itailains don't always pay. So my son still tours approximately 4 months of the year. My daghter-in-law owns a marketing company, having several major accounts, however Italians are slow pay or even no-pay for work done.

The good thing is I have a place to stay when I go to Rome and when they visit me I learn to speak a little Italian and how to cook Italian (I love to cook).

If I can help in your decision to move send me a PM.

No, I'd have to find a new one ;-)

I think I know who, too.

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Out of curiosity, have you ever met anyone who didn't bitch about the rat race? I think if we looked around, we'd find that we're all making each other miserible. We are the rat race. It doesn't exist without us.

I've traveled throughout the US, England, Kenya, and a little in France. What I've noticed is that when you boil it down, we all really want the same things. A warm place to sleep at night, someone to love us and share things with, some pocket change, and a full belly. Really, that doesn't seem too much to ask. It becomes complicated when we get caught up in having a little more. A little more money, a little more house, a little more food.

In my opinion, before you pick up and move halfway around the world because your dissatisfied with life, try one thing first. Shut off the TV. Try it for 6 months. If those haven't been some of the most relaxing, pleasant months of your life, then move. It seems crazy, but it's important to remember a couple things. First, the only reason television exists is for the opportunity to sell something to the person watching it. If it weren't for advertising, there would be no television. Second, the way advertising works is by convincing you that whatever it is you own is inferior, and should be replaced immediately. Television (all advertising really) is so pervasive in our culture, that our culture is one of discontent bred purely by advertising. Life here is actually pretty damn fine, were just constantly being bombarded with the notion that it isn't.

Yup. Pretty darn good observation Matt. I agree.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

"Underestimate me you should not." -- Yoda

Hey Bri, did you make it to Abitaman last weekend? A bit chilly at the start (car said 41F when we were going past Eglin at 5:45) but overall a great day to be out racing on the beach. After I finished, I found myself thinking "I may not have the budget to go race in exotic locales, but hey, what I've got in my own backyard is pretty damn good" as I was heading back to collect my bike.

3Sport go for it. Whatever country. Many dream but few can break out and actually do it.

Hi Mark, like Marco said (a proposito Marco, di dove sei?), it ain't all roses over here and sometimes it can be really frustrating having to deal with the ever present beaurocrats. However, I gotta tell you that the northern part of Lazio, Umbria and some parts of Tuscany (especially Maremma, near Grosseto) are really heaven (at least for me). I'm originally from here (here being the Northern tip of Lazio, right on the border with Umbria and Toscana, the town being Viterbo), but I've lived many many years abroad (Miami, London, Amsterdam , La Paz, Belgrade, Vienna (austria), Milan, Havana, etc...) but I really found my peace of mind returning here. Okay, I still work mostly in Roma, but I go back to Viterbo and its beautiful surroundings on every week end and every time I can. My girlfriend plays pro hoops in Orvieto, thus my life is spent basically between Lazio and Umbria and I couldn't ask for anything better.
Life can still be simple and stress free here. People do actually care about others, culture and savoir faire are still the most important traits searched in people, at least in small communities. Food is simply awesome and with your line of work, it shouldn't be too hard to find an occupation here, assuming you learn the language. Forget about the B&B thing though, there are way too many of them and I have a hunch that it's really expensive to start one, unless you have roots in the town you'd eventually choose. Should you have any questions, regarding ANYTHING, feel free to PM any time.

Filippo