I rode the 420s for a while before my new set of AC-sprint 350s came. The 420 are quire light for an aluminum mid section clincher and have the same light weight hub-set that other american classic wheels have. For my aero race wheels I now have a set of the AC carbon 38mm wheels.

Natasha

www.NatashaFilliol.com

Natasha,

Thanks for the response. Do you feel like the CR420 would qualify as an aero rim? Do you fill faster on the Carbon 38 or can you really tell a difference between the two wheels? Do you like the Tubular over the Clincher?

Thanks,

Mike

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TheBikeRacer.com

I am not sure if this will help but I did some test rides (40-50 miles) on a set of them early last year and was not all that impressed due to what I percieved as too much flex from the front wheel (nubs have a very small diameter flange). Now to qualify this, at the time I weighed 190 at 6' (now 175) and was riding the wheelset on a very lightweight prototype Titanium bike frame with an ultralight bladed carbon fork. What I observed is that over the course of 350 miles (mostly high tempo, group training rides) over varying terrrain, the front wheel seemed to exhibit a lot of flex during climbs. This is not based on scientific analysis but simply an observation that the rim had a tendency to rub on the front break pads during heavy efforts but when checked in the truing stand was perfectly round. I do tend to run the bike with very minimal clearance in the brake pads but when I open the brake caliper release, no more rubbing. In retrospect and to pay American Classic due respect, I seem to recall that afterwards, I read that Am Class does not recommend these wheels for riders who are over 170-175 lbs.!



Michael

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I borrowed one of these (non-bladed spokes) from a friend for the Great Floridian Triathlon (IM distance) and it was definitely way more aero than my normal Mavic Open Pro. In test rides I was roughly 1mph faster on average, but I noted a lot of ride harshness over bad pavement, and at the end of 112 miles my arms, shoulders and hands were killing me. 100 miles or so is normally not a big deal for me on the Mavic on the same roads, so I have to place some blame on the wheel. I didn't notice a lot of flex on climbing, but I am 155lb so that might be the reason. Also, the spokes were pretty tight compared to what I would think is normal, so maybe mine didn't flex quite enough!

having checked the amclassic website, there is a standard build weight limmit of 200 pounds for the 420's with optional clydsdale or light weight builds. Mabe the build you rode was meant for a lighter rider, who knows.

I weigh round 170-180, and have a decent sprint, i have been very happy with my 16/20 set: xl's in the front and comps in the back. i've had 'em for almost 2 years now, crashed them twice, and train on the rear exculsivley (i'm a posuer and go for the deep rear, shallow front euro look becuase i think it looks cool). I have had to true them twice after both crashes. I also replaced some of the hub internals earlier this year as a prventative measure. All told i'v put nearly 20,000 miles on the rear wheel. I got them with race only intentions, but they are too cool to not be ridden al the time. while they are plenty stiff and durable, i might have gotten a bladed 20/16, or a standard 24/18 had i known i would've been riding them so often.

My biggest complaint: I didn't like the old decals, i think the new ones are badass.

Ben and TriGuy,

Thanks for the responses. That's what I was looking for. So, it's down to the CR420 vs. Hed Stinger. Great - tubular or Clincher - what too do????

Any recommendations ;)

Mike

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TheBikeRacer.com

I think the 420 is deep enough to be aero.However, the carbon 38s do feel faster to me. They are lighter than the alu 420s and deeper as well.
I can definetly feel the difference between the carbon tubulars I ride (tufo tires) and the 420s. The 38s feel more responsive and I like that feeling on race day.

natasha

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JoelFilliol.com - check out the Real Coaching Podcast

Paraphrasing our moderator in his latest review of Zipp wheels. . .If you are going to buy RACE wheels, then buy race wheels. If you can't afford the ~$1300+ entry into the Zipp 58mm rim based wheels, then look at the Hed Alps for ~$900, or just barely more than the 420s. Unless you plan on doing a LOT of road racing (for which any of the deep Zipp based wheels or the Alps are still plenty adequate. . .Look at all the Euro pros that use the Mavic Carbones even in the mountains). . .Go deep ! The Alps are every bit as durable as Ksyriums or 420s if you want a high dollar training AND racing wheel. Anything less than 50mm for an "aero" wheel on a TRIATHLETE's bike is just plain silly in my view. At the $700-$900 price point the 420s don't make sense for a triathlete. Either step up to a deep wheel like the Alps or go with the even lighter 350s if you are concerned about weight. If you are forking over the big bucks for all carbon rimmed wheels like the Zipp 404 or 303. . .then go big. Again. . .our moderator says it much better than I can here.

TriBriGuy is right.

Normally I'm all for tubular race wheels, but as for the 420/38mm carbon comparison, I'd go for the 420. The spoke tension is about twice as high, making it much more responsive, and yes a little "harsher".
It comes down to personal riding style and weight, but a 420 w/ Sapim CXray spokes is a very aero and zingy wheel.
Another plus, I've sold a ton of them, and never had one come back.
b

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"What's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded."

You may also want to take a look at the Tiliums, they are only 70g pr heavier than Zipp 404 and a fully foam filled for strength and shock absorbtion

"...a 420 w/ Sapim CXray spokes is a very aero and zingy wheel."

Have you seen any drag numbers for the 420? The reason I ask is that the 420 has such a wide flat spoke bed that it does not look like it would be very aerodynamic. It almost like a Mavic Open-series rim, just deeper. The better performing aero wheels have V-shaped or at least rounded edges. I would be hesitant to call the 420 a legitimate aero wheel until I saw some numbers on it.

The Sapim spokes are indeed very nice, but most data indicates that rim shape and depth is more important than the type of spokes.

TBG,

What do you think of the HED Stinger?

Mike

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TheBikeRacer.com

I just got my 420's last night and was pretty impressed. The build looks nice and they are amazingly light (no rim strip, tubes, tires...) Now, I'm only in my second year of riding/racing, so I admit my experience is limited. I had the 420's built all black with the bladed spokes, 16/20. I'm 5'7"/156, so they should suit me well. My Cosmos will be relegated to back up wheels and I will use these for training and racing on my 03 Litespeed Capella. If this year goes well, I will look to buy a tri-specific bike and use the 420's for that ride, then buy racing wheels. I also did not pay retail, so for me, these should work well.

I'll try to post some feedback once I get some mileage on them. A friend just bought them as well, and will have his set up with Campy 10 spd.

Any rim strip suggestions?

I have no personal experience with the Hed Stinger wheels, but I can guess, based on experience with H3, Alps, and both original and Superlight discs that the current reincarnation of the Stinger concepts at Hed are a good wheel. I'm assuming that these wheels capitalized on the oval sidewall patent share with Zipp, as well. I will say that if I was going to spend that level of $, I'd probably go for the Zipp 404s, mainly because they are a proven wheel. Full carbon wheels are hard to perfect enough for market at a reasonable price, as Hed's ill-fated original Stinger project showed. I suppose its brief stint is the reason I'd wait a year or so before buying into the current Hed project, just to ensure they are going to stay on the market. This, of course, is not a knock on Hed, as I believe Steve and Annie have seriously high standards and lofty goals for their products. Its probable that they just needed their manufacturing capability to catch up with their designs with the originals.

>Anything less than 50mm for an "aero" wheel on a TRIATHLETE's bike is just plain silly in my view

Seems like the Shamals compare quite nicely with the best front wheels out there and are only 42mm (or so) deep

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