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Question about Bike endurance for Ironman
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Doing IM CDA in June. My bike endurance is my weakest link, without a doubt. The training program I'm on, and all others I've read about, call for one long bike ride per week. My long ride will go to as much as 7 hours during my training.

My question is this - I'm wondering if it would be beneficial to me to go long on the bike Saturday AND Sunday? I'd have to adjust my schedule slightly because currently my long run is on Sunday.

Or maybe just throw in a Sat/Sun long ride weekend every 2 or 3 weeks instead of every week? Or - is it enough to just do one long ride every Saturday?

Just looking for some opinions....

Thanks,

-TxDude
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Re: Question about Bike endurance for Ironman [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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If you did the race with 'todays' fitness, what would your time be? What would your bike split be?

What's your running like?

1/2 marathon PR?

Marathon PR?

1/2 Im PR?


**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**
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Re: Question about Bike endurance for Ironman [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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Big weekends are the key if you have a regular job.

My IM prep usually is .... Saturday short swim 30-45 minutes, long bike of 5-7 hours, short run 8-10k

Sunday bike 40-60k followed by my long run 2-2.5 hours

Fridays and Mondays are usually relatively easy days.
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Re: Question about Bike endurance for Ironman [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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I'm moved to riding long on Saturday and then riding again shorter (about 2-3 hours) on Sunday followed with a long swim (outdoor 50 meter pool only open on Sundays 12:30-3:00). My long run is now done on either Tuesday or Wednesday morning. I do have the flexibility to come in to work a little late on those mornings. But, my biking has improved a lot.

clm

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Question about Bike endurance for Ironman [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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In prepping for IMFL last year, I noticed a HUGE gain in cycling endurance when I started riding both Saturday and Sunday. Most weekends, I got in about 8 hours on the bike total, split between the two days. Sometimes 6 Sat and 2 Sun, or 4 and 4 or 3 and 5, whatever. Remember, come IMDay you need to get off the bike and run a marathon. By then you should be able to get off the bike feeling fresh or you're toast.
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Re: Question about Bike endurance for Ironman [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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you may consider having
saturday: long ride, say up to 6hrs,
sunday: brick session, say up to 4h ride with some race pace followed with a 1h run (something that you build progressively).
Ideally, you may want to have once/twice a month a shorter long ride on saturday, but a swim/bike/run on sunday, building up to 1h swim, 4h to 5h ride and 1h run, focusing on race nutrition, race pace, race equipment etc.
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Re: Question about Bike endurance for Ironman [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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I plan on trying the mid-week long run protocol with biking both Saturday and Sunday this summer. I would not say it is an unusual recommendation. Training for a spring marathon led to bike workouts being more maintenance than point of focus, and I will need lots of miles on the road to advance the bike in prep for the end-of-summer A race. With bike endurance as your limiter, I would think you would be well-served to figure out some way to get more than one longish ride per week. I can squeeze in a two-hour run mid-week, but I can't pull off a 3+ hour ride. FWIW,

Dan
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Re: Question about Bike endurance for Ironman [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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It was interesting what you said initially- that your bike endurance is your weakest link. I suspect if you do some really long rides- as you mentioned in the 6-7 hour range (that's long!) you will acquire the endurance you need.

Take a tip from a lot of the top guys and, when transitioning to the longer rides, keep your intensity very low. The primary training adaptation from rides like this come from the duration. Also, be sure you are practicing good recovery afterwards.

I don;t think back to back loong rides would be an enormous benefit to you right now. In the future, once your endurance base is established (if it isn't already) you may want to put inone of those weeks where you take some time off work and just train- putting in a good, long week- your version of Epic Camp. That seems to help once your base is established.

Good luck- I'm sure you'll get there!

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Question about Bike endurance for Ironman [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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Like all training tips, this is what works for me and might not for you, including what all the others say, we don't know you!

I think most people profit from two successive long days on the bike, make sure you don't go fast on the first day.

I don't see much profit on going longer than 4-5 hours regularly, you can do it once in a while but not every weekend. (4-5h on sat and 3-4 on sunday is good).

don't do a long run after a long ride saturday and a medium on sunday, like someone further down mentionend. Some people might profit from that but most of us will not. Train your running endurance while running and your bike endurance while riding, the bricks are for transition, say up to 1h running (again that's for most of us).

I don't know how much time you have but I usually focus on either bike or run for a month. I do two long rides in the bike-month or do training camps where I ride every day up to 1000km a week (1-2weeks). Then rest, then do run-month, where I do only one long ride and more running. The gain from the hard bike month will be greater than just doing the same amount every month and it will not go away in the month where you do less.
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Re: Question about Bike endurance for Ironman [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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I am going to offer a counter-recommendation; Don't forget about strength/speed/power workouts!

I think too many people concentrate on LSD training, and forget about getting stronger and/or faster. Chris Carmichael has a very interesting article on www.xtri.com about economy of motion, or "the amount of energy you’re burning to maintain a specific pace." He goes on to state that, "Studies have shown that increasing muscular strength leads to improved economy of motion." By increasing your strength through higher intensity workouts, you can increase your maximum output or speed, which in turn, increases your sub-maximal output or speed.

Take a look at your 'during the week' workouts, and think about what you are trying to accomplish with them. Consider doing some hill workouts, or other power/strength building intervals. Once your body adapts to the higher demands of these workouts, your sub-maximal efforts will be easier, and faster. ;-) Going slow for long periods of time, will only train you to go slow for long periods of time.
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Re: Question about Bike endurance for Ironman [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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{Going slow for long periods of time, will only train you to go slow for long periods of time.} REPLY

You sound like a Micheal McCormack follower. True?
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Re: Question about Bike endurance for Ironman [Herschel34] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, I am a grasshopper. I have found the MMC training program to be very beneficial.
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Re: Question about Bike endurance for Ironman [mojozenmaster] [ In reply to ]
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My 1/2 marathon PR is - 1:33 (last month)

My half IM PR is - 5:29 (3 years ago when I was 20lbs heavier - bike split was around 2:45)

If I had to do an Ironman this week, my swim would likely be 1:10-1:15, my bike would be 6:30-7:00 (and I would be suffering the last 30 miles), and then I'd probably have to "survive" the run.

My current training schedule kind of goes like this:

Mon - off or aerobic swim

Tues- bike trainer intervals and transition run; aerobic swim if off on Mon

Wed - AT swim; easy ride 60-90min

Thu - track or fartlek run; easy ride 60-90; weights

Fri - long endurance swim; easy bike 60-90

Sat - long bike (currently at 4h30); transition run (currently 20-30min)

Sun - long run; easy bike 60-90; weights

So currently, I'm buliding the Sat long rides to be longer and longer, the long run, and the Tues intervals session on the bike get harder and longer.

So, I'm contenplating switching things up a bit to maybe do longer riding on Sat AND Sun, and then move my long run somewhere else.

I have 2-3 hours available to train in the mornings during the week; and as much time as necessary on the weekends.

Thanks for all the tips,

- TxDude
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Re: Question about Bike endurance for Ironman [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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I would think about getting another quality interval bike workout in during the week instead of the easy bikes. You are on a similar schedule to me. Keep up the good work in the pool MWF. I do my quality bikes on Tues. and Thurs. mornings, with my quality hill/track/tempo runs Tues. and Thurs. nights. Mon. night is yoga, Friday night is recovery, Wed. night is recovery or easy. Sat. is long bike, Sun. long run. I am going to try to incorporate a short transition run after my long bikes, and a short warmup ride before my long runs. I make sure that I am rested and ready for my quality workouts. Biking in the morning doesn't seem to bother my hard runs in the afternoon, I just need a nice long warmup.
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Re: Question about Bike endurance for Ironman [TxDude] [ In reply to ]
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eliminate one or two of those easy bike days and put that time into more quality workouts. biking 6 days a week isnt gonna help much. instead bike 4 days, but longer or more intense workouts
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