Well, here's the USAT rule (dont' know what set of rules govern the IM NZ) on assistance:

Unauthorized Assistance. No participant shall accept from any person (other than a race official) physical assistance in any form, including food, drink, equipment, support, pacing, a replacement bicycle or bicycle parts, unless an express exception has been granted and approved, in writing, by USA Triathlon. The receipt of information regarding the progress, split times, or location of other competitors on the race course shall not be considered the acceptance of unauthorized assistance. Any violation of this Section shall result in a variable time penalty.

Note that the "assister" can be a fellow athlete. By the way, as a USAT CAT 3 official, you can't really tell from the picture if any USAT rules were violated. Obviously, the picture suggests a position foul and/or an assistance violation.

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FIST Certified Fitter
Salt Lake City, Utah

 Again is the importance the spirit or letter of the rule? Example. Last year at my IM in T1 someone stole my frame pump(nice huh).If I would of flatted are you saying that I should therfore just walk off the course,regardless of entry fee travel ect....I have NO shot at a Kona slot,we are talking 13hr finish here. I know the rule says time penelty but if I flatted twice that would be a DQ. Are you saying you would just look at me and say "Tough shit dude,get off the course you broke a rule" I am all for the Spirit of the rules being followed,but sheesh It seeems there is No mercy out there!

Goodtime, I know that road back into LP well. Rode it 10 times during 5 races and then another 15 times in training. I pretty well know every pothole on that road and how the gorge "behaves" under a variety of wind configuarations. I have to say, the sweetest ride up was in 1999 when you had this massive tailwind and got blown up the Gorge. Last year was a disaster. I am amazed that your wife rode up the gorge with a flat. On the one hand, I am amazed that she did not stop to change it, but then again, it changing a flat in tornado like conditions is pretty tough. The was so tough coming up that I wonder if she did not even notice the slow leak and just throught that her body was blowing up in the insane headwind and rain.



Glad your wife got to her goals with your support !

The unauthorized assistance rule applies to the entire race, not just the bike. Wouldn't a prearranged agreement to work together on the swim be considered a form of pacing?

That doesn't seem to me to be a very well written rule. The whole rule can't have intended to apply to "assistance" from other athletes, because clearly athletes pacing each other on the run cannot possibly be an infringement.

Perhaps she knew she was going to DNF and her husband was just trying to help her get back to transition.

Either that, or they are couple of sneaky, cheating bastards and should beaten without mercy. In fact, maybe she has a loop on her back and is really PULLING him. Ya, I bet that's it.

-TxDude

Last year my wife and I did a local 1/2 marathon. I signed up for the run and she signed up for the walk.
I ran the run and she walked ALMOST all the distance. About 100m from the end, she started running!!! From the finish chute, I screamed out CHEATER, she's RUNNING (and she had theobvious walker race number).
I copped a LOT fo flack from her and her friends. I still stand by my belief that if you're gonna sign up for a race, you should follow the rules. All the rules Runners are ALLOWED to walk, but walkers aren't allowed to run.
Don't feel too sorry for me. I'm sure she'll eventually have sex with me again sometime soon.

On another note at IMNZ last weekend, I saw an ambulance rush by. Some time later I saw the same ambulance stopped by the run course. Just outside, on the grass verge was a woman with her knees bandaged, CRAWLING towards the finish. Now Idon't know what happened to her, twisted ankle maybe, but IM rules specifically state that running and walking are the only forms of locomotion allowed on the run course. After Julie Moss at Hawaii, I think that was a good rule.
I don't know if she finished (long way to the finish line) but I sorta hope she was DQ'd for breaking the rules.

TriDork

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

"That doesn't seem to me to be a very well written rule. The whole rule can't have intended to apply to "assistance" from other athletes, because clearly athletes pacing each other on the run cannot possibly be an infringement."

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Agree that the rule is ambiguous, but probably done that way on purpose. Not sure that I would agree with your interpretation. I think the rule also applies to fellow athletes. What's the difference between a friend who is not doing the race "pacing" you as you plod along at mile 22 and the same friend who is doing exactly the same thing but happens to be doing the race? (I don't know about you, don't think I have any friends who would slow down for more than 15 seconds to run with me and then say "see ya in the massage tent!" Of course, in the latter case, it would be almost impossible for an official to determine the difference between illegal "assistance" or "pacing" and simply running together (or even racing each other). Good question for Charlie Crawford at the next race briefing you see him at! And in my experience, officials try to avoid giving outside assistance penalties because in most cases, it's a case of a good samaritan or an ignorant family/friend just trying to help out.

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FIST Certified Fitter
Salt Lake City, Utah

I believe Tom D said there was a woman who had some problems and crawled the last 1.5

More like 3 km I think, based on the location of "40km" sign.

Either way, a bloodylong way to crawl.



TriDork

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Ironman means so many things to all of us and different things to different people. I'll tell you one thing I have never drafted and never will. Even on training rides I try to pull out to the side so I don't get the full advantage of the draft it helps me race better knowing I've trained hard.This might not make sense it's just helpful to me when I get really tired during a race to remember this type of thing.

Ok now for my point . I'm getting older, my wife and I train and race together. If she ever agree's to do an Ironman I'm going to do it with her "the whole way" It's a dream I have to share this with her. I could care less what people think. Heck 95% of the people only do it for the experience anyway. I can't think of a better way to renew your vows

Ok cerveloguy said Clem didn't have a guy in his life. Let's not bring sexual preference into this! Clem seems plenty manly to me!

I meant 1.5miles so that would be about right. If you search Tom Demerly's posts you will find it. I think He said hip,femur problems and was pretty fast before the problem.

I can't think of a better way to renew your vows
Long vows........."Say for better" at the start and the "or for worse" at mile 21 on the run

Dev, You have a great way of inconspicuously tooting your own horn, listing accomplishments with every post. At least your not putting down others to feel good. You da man!

[reply] Now Idon't know what happened to her, twisted ankle maybe, but IM rules specifically state that running and walking are the only forms of locomotion allowed on the run course. After Julie Moss at Hawaii, I think that was a good rule.
I don't know if she finished (long way to the finish line) but I sorta hope she was DQ'd for breaking the rules.

TriDork[/reply]

Crawling is still permitted at IMH; a special exemption to the USAT rule. Wendy Ingraham and Sian Welch had a crawl off of there a few years ago for 4th and 5th place.

IMNZ isn't sanctioned by USAT so I don't know the specifics of the rules they use.

Larry

Broll, agreed. It is a free world. This forum has lots of smart people who have done a lot more than any of us in tris. My only reason for qualifying postings is to back it up with credibility. I post with my name, so anyone can check results and splits at many races etc etc to verify. Shit, you do this stuff for your own fun and to feel good about it. May as well take some credit. I am also the first to admit when I suck and blow up. Witness the 12:30 at LP 2003. At least I finished. As Goodtime knows, I really respect his spouse for finishing on that road on that day with a flat having ridden that road in LP way too many times over the past 6 years.

In the race manual I got, it specifically mentioned running and walking only.

I will try to remember to check my manual at home over the weekend and get back to you all next week.

TriDork

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

That's like saying if you see two bikers punching each other in the face you think it's wrong but if you see two boxers doing it in a match you cheer. What's the difference?

and people say us aussie males are insensitive, good on you mate.



The majority of posts on this thread are taking themselves way too seriously. The name of the game is P-A-R-T-I-C-I-P-A-T-I-O-N.

This couple have been hammered from pillar to post accused of being posers,cheats, imposters, beginner gumbies out of their depth or whatever. For all we know they may be very accomplished short course athletes who decided to do an ironman together. Who knows??

to the negatives out there, get over yourself and stop ragging people for having a go. Go buy youselves a huge mirror and have a good hard look at youself, it's not a pretty sight.

[reply]
clm, I am increasingly becoming annoyed by your constant negativity towards the performance of others. I don't like your elitist attitude. I am a FOP swimmer and BOP finisher. You don't hear me constantly bitching about the slow swimmers that start at the front of the pack and don't know the proper etiquette for swimming in a pack. I know that many of these people are complaining about my being in front of them on the bike and having to pass me. Instead I understand that this is part of being in a growing sport and enjoy my own race and personal sense of accomplishment. Have I done and Ironman - no. I switched careers last year - I am now the low guy on the totem pole working far too many hours with a new baby at home and an hour commute each way. There is no way I could do an ironman in the next few years. I am happy racing with Cerveloguy in the Subaru and Multisport sprint and olympic series here in Ontario.

In short, clm - stop being such a bitch.[/reply]

Just had to laugh at this again!

Who are you laughing at - cerveloguy and yarf for doing sprints or clm for being a bitch?

I know it was a long time ago but I think P Star and clm have an ongoing fued. We can enjoy our sprints together in peace.

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"which is like watching one of your buddies announce that he's quitting booze and cigarettes, switching to a Vegan diet and training for triathalons ... but he's going to keep snorting heroin." Bill Simmons, ESPN

>>I know it was a long time ago but I think P Star and clm have an ongoing fued.<<

I have no feud with anyone. Patty hates me. I don't remember why or if I even knew, or if I did know, I forgot.

Life is way too short to be bitter and stalk people around, or to let what others think affect you. It's much more fun taking a bunch of newbie triathletes out and riding with them on their longest ever ride (20 miles) and seeing their smiles after they made it to the top of the big climb and then got to experience going down the other side.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com